To think banning stuff from schools is stupid

[SparklesAndUnicorns]

I like to think I'm quite a 'progressive' parent and I like my children to express themselves how they feel most comfortable, they tend to pick and wear what they want over the weekends and I do let them ocassionally change their hair colours with semi permanent safe dyes.
I agree with school uniform but my daughters school doesn't even allow hair bows, she went in with a few braids and bows in the other day and came home with a messy ponytail in and told me the teacher had taken them out. Teacher explained it's against school rules to have more than one bow in their hair. Aibu to think rules like no nail varnish, no hair accessories and no hair dye is just ridiculous rules? How is this going to effect their learning? She is only 6 and I really don't understand the reasoning. Surely if it's a bullying thing then this is down to parenting your child to accept that everyone is different, I can't see how it's a health and safety issue like piercings would be, I do agree to remove earrings on PE days as I can understand that one, but the others seem strange to me. Would love to know others feelings and opinions on this

Kazzyhoward

That’s a very bald statement. Are you a teacher?

That’s a very bald statement. Are you a teacher

Are you?

at DD's school fashion isn't a thing (I had never even heard of JoJo bows until I read about them on here, once I knew what they were I scoured the playground for them - think I might have seen one, once).

DD and her pals seem to live in leggings/jeans and a T shirt with trainers and hoodie (winter) and shorts and a T shirt and trainers or sandals (summer). She will continue to wear holey stuff if she really likes it, no-one ever comments. There's maybe a couple of kids in her class who care about fashion (they're year 4) but that's it, and there's certainly no bullying over clothing. The only time we hear comments about clothing is when two children have the same T shirt (which is a positive).

It is an utter non-issue that the staff waste 0% of their day on.

And the reason I ask is that I think non-teachers, who don’t really understand what they’re talking about (if we’re being honest) fail to understand that successful schools run on systems. They’re not really good because of “crap” teachers and “good” teachers. Most schools have a staff made up of people with different strengths and weaknesses. Some will be what we call “crap”, some inspiring. But the thing good schools have in common is not a plethora of inspiring individuals. It is systems the kids understand, systems that create consistency so they know what to expect, systems that enforce whatever rule has been decided upon, properly. A school could work with or without uniform (although I personally prefer uniform). It can’t work with students and parents making the rules as they go along.

Are you?

I was.

Most of Europe and America don’t have school uniforms in normal schools and I don’t think it is a huge deal.

I can’t speak for Europe, but pretty much every school in the US will have a dress code. And you’ll quite likely get sent home for violating it. It’s not quite as easy as just picking something out of the wardrobe unless you are limiting your child’s wardrobe to only those clothes that fit within the dress code. A uniform would be considerably less hassle.

Yet you don't know it's bold not bald?

MamamaMadness

Oh dear. I think that was a “bold” statement, whereas your previous one was “bald”. “Bold” is when you overreach and actually are wrong. “Bald” is unembellished, too reductive.

I think you need to Google your definitions. Either way, the statement was neither bold, nor bald. It was true. If you can't control a class, it will make no difference as to what pieces of material adorn their bodies.

MamamaMadness

I really don’t. I know the meaning of those words. Thanks for offering me Google, though.

Anyway, unless you are a teacher, it’s hard for you to get why certain things make a difference in certain contexts. It’s easy to have an outside view, but the view from the inside is often more informed and nuanced.

I am intrigued what this dress code is because dds friends went to school in the US and if their was a dress code it didn’t seem to impact on them.

There is a huge difference between uniform and having a dress code
Uniform is so narrow that it doesn’t allow for mistakes or if something happens overnight and you don’t have a particular spare piece of clothing then you can expect a detention and it is made into such a huge deal.

I wonder how many teaching hours/money is lost on policing and punishing offenders who aren’t wearing the uniform correctly

Ds’s school had isolation and detention as the same thing and if you weren’t wearing a jumper (he lost it and couldn’t get to the one particular shop that sold it till the weekend) then he got a detention staring at a wall in silence for an hour during the school day.

They employed one ft member of staff just to supervise detention/isolation

They employed one ft member of staff just to supervise detention/isolation

Schools without strict uniform policies often do this as well.

"Uniform is so narrow that it doesn’t allow for mistakes or if something happens overnight and you don’t have a particular spare piece of clothing then you can expect a detention and it is made into such a huge deal."

Except the vast majority if not all schools make exceptions for this.

That’s a very bald statement. Are you a teacher?

Yes, I have taught!

Kazzyhoward

That surprises me. One of the first things I learnt as a teacher was that, in most cases, you can’t comment on other settings and contexts without some first-hand knowledge. I don’t disagree that a fundamentally crap teacher will be crap regardless of policies; I just think most people aren’t fundamentally crap. They are often ineffective, but that is usually because of weak policies or weak implementation of those policies.

hercule I know you love to come on to these threads and derail them by picking apart individual posters comments, but could you not? Please? There are more voices worth hearing than just yours. You're not the only person with teaching experience on MN, it might surprise you to hear.

I really can't see any kid respecting a teacher who bangs on about uniform if they otherwise are crap at controlling a class - maybe it's a wee confidence boost for teacher at the beginning of the lesson. The teachers my dcs had who were crap at controlling the class failed to follow through with any consequences, it used to drive my kids mad - you think the unruly kids suddenly develop respect for them over uniform strictness? - is this really the answer SLT have to poor discipline?

CassianAndor

It’s not derailment just because it isn’t your opinion, Cassian. HTH.

Gosh, hercule. You seem really out-of-date with current educational research and practise. Are you in the UK? You might want to do a bit of refresher training. The OU has some excellent free courses about 21st Century teaching. I can recommend one if you like?

I don’t think primary school children should be going to school with multiple hair accessories in or blue hair, no.

The hair accessories do disrupt learning, no two ways about it. A bow will go missing, someone will steal it, other children will want to fiddle with them etc. You can wear the bows all you want at home but in school, there’s just no need. A six year old also really doesn’t need to ‘express themselves’ with fashion...

Practice*

the hair accessories do disrupt learning, no two ways about it. A bow will go missing, someone will steal it, other children will want to fiddle with them etc

None of that has ever happened in my classroom, and I have never had a hair bow disrupt learning 😂

and there's goes the point>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

MamamaMadness

It’s okay, Mamama. You don’t have to get all aggressive just because you overreached and made a bit of a lemon of yourself. I’m not annoyed. Let’s just leave it.

CassianAndo

The point is that I have not derailed anything. I have made relevant comments. Because you don’t like them, you are attacking me personally.