To think banning stuff from schools is stupid

[SparklesAndUnicorns]

I like to think I'm quite a 'progressive' parent and I like my children to express themselves how they feel most comfortable, they tend to pick and wear what they want over the weekends and I do let them ocassionally change their hair colours with semi permanent safe dyes.
I agree with school uniform but my daughters school doesn't even allow hair bows, she went in with a few braids and bows in the other day and came home with a messy ponytail in and told me the teacher had taken them out. Teacher explained it's against school rules to have more than one bow in their hair. Aibu to think rules like no nail varnish, no hair accessories and no hair dye is just ridiculous rules? How is this going to effect their learning? She is only 6 and I really don't understand the reasoning. Surely if it's a bullying thing then this is down to parenting your child to accept that everyone is different, I can't see how it's a health and safety issue like piercings would be, I do agree to remove earrings on PE days as I can understand that one, but the others seem strange to me. Would love to know others feelings and opinions on this

Sometimes it's good prep for work where some companies have dress codes.

However, not all do, which suggests it's down to culture rather than effects on productivity. Even in places with firm rules, managers are becoming more relaxed. I work in a customer facing role where, 10 years ago, you couldn't show a tattoo but now they are so commonplace, they've had to become more relaxed here.

Some heads can be quite Machiavellian about uniform. We had one who kept changing the rules - eg he suddenly insisted on winter uniform in September even if it were 30 degrees. Kids came out saying they felt sick and got told off for wearing the summer dress/shorts. I was put in the position of telling my child to ignore the teachers as even she knew it made no bloody sense.

While I don't really see the harm in having braids, it's probably a bit busy a hairdo for school and would attract a lot of attention and so distract people. However, the teacher was wrong to take them out. I'd have felt as I, the parent, were being treated as a child. At pick up, the teacher could politely and quietly have reminded us of the rules and said just a regular hairstyle tomorrow

I'm not a particular fan of school uniform, but I'd rather encourage children to express their personality through their words, actions and creativity rather than through how they look. I don't think encouraging young children to place such value on self-adornment is a particularly good idea at all, and it tends to reinforce gender stereotypes too.

vittana.org/22-advantages-and-disadvantages-of-school-uniforms

It's the U.K. obsession with rules and keeping everyone in line. I really noticed a difference in attitudes towards excess control when we moved from the U.K. to Ireland. Here, we have a uniform policy in my son's primary but it's very basic. They can wear trainers, nail varnish (!) hair bows (massive) have very short haircuts etc. and it doesn't infringe the uniform policy or affect discipline or concentration.
Teachers are kind and supportive and the children are happy and co-operative. Thankfully, we don't have SAT's, OFSTEAD equivalent inspections or ludicrous attendance rules. Quite a few parents took their kids out of school last week (school finished Friday) for a family holiday to save money. I was chatting to the Head who suggested that families of 5 or more could easily save €1k by holidaying before the schools broke up. It obviously wasn't a serious issue for him.

If you don't like the rules then home school.

Op you could have asked if uniform was really necessary and got pretty much the same replies. It does seem that schools have become increasingly fixated on uniform and the teachers seem to spend a lot of time arguing about it on here and no doubt in their classrooms - for what purpose? Choose a different school if you don't like the rules they yell - like where? Who gets to chose their school - don't be so stupid! Rules should be questioned - when did we start living in a country where rules should not be challenged - HT are running state schools - we are paying for these schools - we have a right to challenge!

Yes, I was thinking that. Other countries manage and still raise a happy and/or successful population

Yes, I think nonsensical rules are disruptive, too - like my first example

There is a lot of research out there that shows strict uniform policy generally boosts academic attainment, so there must be something to it.

I think some other countries manage because the cultural norms are different and children are expected to do as they are told so learning rules and conformity isn’t such an issue. I can’t imagine a child in say Austria, being rude to the teacher and the parent suggesting it is the teachers problem. I can’t imagine that child being sent to school in nappies unless they had a significant disability. I can’t imagine that child turning up in entirely inappropriate clothing that encouraged children in the early years to become conscious of fashion and body adornment as something women were expected to do.

Children in some countries wear much stricter uniforms and are proud to do so. In some countries being able to afford the uniform is a huge positive social marker.

How many people would actually prefer no school uniform to just following some simple rules?

Uniform is great. The children don’t ruin their good clothes, they can go to school feeling a little bit less “poor” because they don’t have the latest trainers and jeans, they can avoid getting picked on because their parents like X and the current trend is Y. Uniform levels the playing field and lets children feel part of a group.

But of course you get the people who want to throw all that out because they want their darling to be able to wear her hair bows.

I used to live and work in Korea, and it's pretty much the opposite there. Girls are nigh-on encouraged to have as much foofy crap about their person as possible.

"Lula can't do gym today as she's wearing her princess dress."
"Lula can't do the outdoor activity today as she's wearing heels."
"Lula can't do finger painting today as she had a manicure yesterday with mummy."
"Lula has her spare lipstick in her bag, don't let the other girls use it."
"please make sure you re-do Lula's hair before she goes to her math tutor", Lula's hairstyle consisting of 17 randomly placed pony tails in little fiddly bobbles.

I promise all of these things happened on a regular basis. We're talking 5 or 6 year old kids.

At the end of the day, the boys would be playing and the girls would be lined up to have their intricate hairstyles redone. What the hell kind of message does that send?

As a result, I am totally against all and any accoutrements for my own daughter. She does not need it drummed into her that she needs to care about her appearance beyond being neat and clean until she's much older (and even then, but I guess it's inevitable.)

She has every weekend and school holiday to wear more than one bow in her hair. There are worse problems to have op!

Yabu

There is a lot of research out there that shows strict uniform policy generally boosts academic attainment, so there must be something to it. @VBT2 Can you link to this please?

journalistsresource.org/studies/society/education/school-uniforms-research-achievement/

Looks a rather mixed bag here.

Uniform is great. The children don’t ruin their good clothes, they can go to school feeling a little bit less “poor” because they don’t have the latest trainers and jeans, they can avoid getting picked on because their parents like X and the current trend is Y. Uniform levels the playing field and lets children feel part of a group.

But of course you get the people who want to throw all that out
because they want their darling to be able to wear her hair bows

Or you could say schools take uniform rules to the extreme - for example not allowing pupils to take blazers off on hot days, not allowing pupils to wear boots in cold and wet climates. Insisting on laced up shoes - banning velcro and buckles, insisting on branded expensive uniform that can only be purchased from one shop. Insisting on navy nights when black would be perfectly acceptable...the silly requirements do not fulfil the need to give poor pupils a level playing field - in fact a few schools were found guilty of using (expensive and strict) uniform rules to discourage poorer families from attending their state school.

Or you could say schools take uniform rules to the extreme - for example not allowing pupils to take blazers off on hot days, not allowing pupils to wear boots in cold and wet climates. Insisting on laced up shoes - banning velcro and buckles, insisting on branded expensive uniform that can only be purchased from one shop. Insisting on navy nights when black would be perfectly acceptable...the silly requirements do not fulfil the need to give poor pupils a level playing field - in fact a few schools were found guilty of using (expensive and strict) uniform rules to discourage poorer families from attending their state school.

Oh, I don’t disagree with this. I support simple uniform rules everyone can manage.

@herculepoirot2 it's easy to agree with simple uniform but it's really not that simple. My kids PE uniform costs a fortune - special school socks £12, special school shorts and tops £20 each. You need a leotard and tights, you need white only trainers, football boots if you are a boy, boys aso need a long sleeved rugby shirt (£26), Both need a special school fleece for winter (£30) and track-suit bottoms (£18) or you have the choice to freeze if you are poor - I don't see much in the way of social levelling or an attempt to remove the stigma of being poor - the poor kids I'd imagine get very cold at winter PE. If they were social leveling - white t shirt black bottoms would work but that's not the point is it? And don't tell me if I don't like it to chose another school - all the schools around here are the same - we do not have a choice and they all funnily enough issue the same statement - if you don't like the uniform requirements - you can just leave - and go where?

Yabu .
Parents with that attitude are a pain in the arse and set a bad example to their kids. I quickly learnt to avoid them in the playground.

NationalAnthem

That’s not a simple uniform.

Primary schools generally aren't so bad but most secondaries are like that. Our local food bank stocks second hand uniform. We are in a supposedly affluent area. Doesn't that tell you something?

In primary especially I think kids should be kids and not muck with their appearance with hair dyes etc

I work at a school I get it.

You so obviously don't OP.

DD is at a non-uniform school, it doesn't affect the children's learning one jot. It does, however, mean that she is always completely comfortable in what she wears.

Bit MN is full of parents who have been successfully indoctrinated into believing that the world will fall apart if the children don't wear uniform. It won't.

DD is at a non-uniform school, it doesn't affect the children's learning one jot. It does, however, mean that she is always completely comfortable in what she wears.

That’s your child and one school. I can guarantee you, if I had been sent to school in the few items of clothing that fitted me or the many that didn’t, I would not have been completely comfortable.