To think banning stuff from schools is stupid

[SparklesAndUnicorns]

I like to think I'm quite a 'progressive' parent and I like my children to express themselves how they feel most comfortable, they tend to pick and wear what they want over the weekends and I do let them ocassionally change their hair colours with semi permanent safe dyes.
I agree with school uniform but my daughters school doesn't even allow hair bows, she went in with a few braids and bows in the other day and came home with a messy ponytail in and told me the teacher had taken them out. Teacher explained it's against school rules to have more than one bow in their hair. Aibu to think rules like no nail varnish, no hair accessories and no hair dye is just ridiculous rules? How is this going to effect their learning? She is only 6 and I really don't understand the reasoning. Surely if it's a bullying thing then this is down to parenting your child to accept that everyone is different, I can't see how it's a health and safety issue like piercings would be, I do agree to remove earrings on PE days as I can understand that one, but the others seem strange to me. Would love to know others feelings and opinions on this

For what its worth, the most critical, politically and socially curious, questioning, delightfully argumentative (in a good way not stroppy teen way) students I've worked with were students who weren't going out of their way to highlight how different and quirky they are. They understood uniform, didn't revert tk 'but it doesn't affect my brain' standard of challenging and were brilliantly insightful on a range of topics.

Their criticality and curiosity came from their inquiring minds, not a desire to show how quirky and different they are though superficial markers.

@LolaSmiles I don't get how brushing your teeth and going to bed is creative, that's just normal routine.
Also you sound a bit bitter about people who dress and look differently. You don't have to like it but I don't get why you can't do what you love without someone saying 'it's not the norm' which is a strange thing to say because I see people with piercings and tattoos all the time and I don't even think about it tbh cus the way people look is nothing to do with me and I don't judge them. You're saying people shouldn't put an emphasis on looks but they way you speak you are making a big deal out of it. A bit of dye in someone's hair or metal in their face doesn't mean they aren't suited to the job you have or aren't an amazing student.

@Deadringer lol yes I am that's my secret identity.

Lolasmiles - What a shame you're connecting that with appearance. My DS is a child such as those in the first paragraph you've spoken about. However, you'd obviously have a shitty opinion of him because of his blue hair. Why don't you just not connect the two things?

I'm actually not a teacher I'm a TA .

I'm not entirely on your side , but I also don't think kids are factory parts designed to be exactly the same . You don't level the playing field by replacing the players with robots.

There can be a way in the middle where some things are non negotiable,some things can be questioned, and some can even be fought against.

Like girls being allowed trousers as part of uniform for example, that didn't just magically happen.

I loathe school uniform for little ones anyway - they shouldn't be in restrictive trousers, shirts and ties when they're trying to play. Polo shirts and joggers are fine.
I’ve always thought this. I remember myself wanting to do handstands and cartwheels but I couldn’t in a skirt.

@YourSarcasmIsDripping well I do agree with a lot of your points my child follows most rules but I do allow questions and I don't want her to feel restricted in society. No one should agree with everything entirely as opinions are there to differ and that's the good thing about people.

LolaSmilesI don't get how brushing your teeth and going to bed is creative, that's just normal routine.
I didn't say it was creative. I was pointing out that there is a time and a place for letting children decide how things are done.
Also you sound a bit bitter about people who dress and look differently.
Hardly considering I've had different colour hair and used to have a facial piercing
You don't have to like it but I don't get why you can't do what you love without someone saying 'it's not the norm' which is a strange thing to say because I see people with piercings and tattoos all the time and I don't even think about it tbh cus the way people look is nothing to do with me and I don't judge them.
You're saying people shouldn't put an emphasis on looks but they way you speak you are making a big deal out of it.
A bit of dye in someone's hair or metal in their face doesn't mean they aren't suited to the job you have or aren't an amazing student.
Except I haven't said anyone wouldn't be an amazing student.
I am saying that the reality is people do dress to communicate themselves and they style a particular image of themselves to present to the world (that's true of everyone).
I also find that the people who make the biggest fuss about the need to express themselves and look different are also the people who make a big song and dance about how looks don't matter anyway. It seems a bit contradictory to claim looks don't matter at all to anything, but at the same time please notice how different I am.
Again, I've had different colour hair and a nose piercing. I also accept places have rules and don't feel like my whole sense of self and critical thinking is tied up in what I look like.

@YourSarcasmIsDripping I think that has alot to do with respect. If you have a teacher who is willing to spend the time to encourage the inquisitive minds and help develop it they are more likely to be interested in learning, and in turn earns their respect.
Teachers who are more militant and rigid, surely would not get the best out of each individual child.

Saying no isnt the issue.
When it comes to rules and why such and such child can break them but DD can't then how do I explain that?
Do I tell her that said child's parents don't care for the rules of the school?
Teaching kids to abide by rules does not stop them from expressing themselves, it teaches them basic respect and discipline - something alot of children could benefit from, not what rules they chose to follow or don't think is "valid enough".

Lolasmiles - What a shame you're connecting that with appearance. My DS is a child such as those in the first paragraph you've spoken about. However, you'd obviously have a shitty opinion of him because of his blue hair. Why don't you just not connect the two things?
Except I haven't said I'd have a shitty opinion of them.

I've made an observation that the most genuinely curious, amazingly argumentative and critical students I've worked with aren't the ones who spend their time arguing the toss over how unfair it is that their school has a uniform.

I've also worked in a non uniform school and have had piercings and different colour hair.

I just happen to find that the 'places have uniform rules and it's going to ruin creativity and my/my child's freedom of thought' to be a bit ridiculous.

@LolaSmiles this thread is about odd school rules I have never once said that your sense of self should surround what you look like. I feel this conversation has gone off on a tangent. I have never said in any of my comments "I'm quirky or my child is quirky" it was just a question as to why hair dye etc wouldn't be allowed in schools when it doesn't effect learning as you've said yourself you've done it all yourself so I'm not sure what you're trying to say. You just sound a bit hypocritical if you're saying it shouldn't be allowed but you do it yourself

You just sound a bit hypocritical if you're saying it shouldn't be allowed but you do it yourself
Or, as I've said over my posts:
Age, time and place matter
I wanted pink glitter crimped hair as a child but my parents said no, but allowed crimped and glitter for parties
I don't believe that kids should get to make whatever decisions they like because 'creativity'.
I've had piercings and different colours over the years
I accept places have rules so that means sometimes sucking up the fact places have rules and not lamenting how unfair it is because 'I could do my job with pink hair'.
Whilst the 'but it doesn't affect my brain' arguments are to be expected from teenagers, I think adults should have the maturity to get past that and get over it.
I find the people who make the biggest fuss about their need to express themselves are also the one quickest to shout about how looks don't matter.

Hardly hypocritical. Adult decides that kids don't have the final say and there is a time and a place for things.

1. Pick your battles. Hair dye and nail polish or even bows are fairly innocuous things, that even if the child is deprived of 6 hours a day ,5 days a week is not much of a hardship and they can still use it the rest of the time.

2.People do take advantage of allowances. It sucks that the rest end up obeying much stringent rules but it happens.

1. Taken singularly each rule in itself being broken or overlooked is not a big deal. Soon however they add up and they do become distracting, turned into a competition,issues for squabbling etc. And as a PP said, girls especially are very likely to spend years and years worrying about how they look and how that can be altered/improved/enhanced. A few years of childhood spent without(or very little) of these social and societal pressure of how to look is not a bad thing.

Fuck me, I sound preachy.

@LolaSmiles I agree a parent is a parent and my children don't rule the roost but I also think people should pick their battles. Like you say appearance isn't everything. So who cares if someone has rainbow hair or whatever?? It shouldn't be seen as any different to brown hair imo
It's not immature to teach your kids equality from an early age. You can tell the kids who haven't been taught this and who have. My kids don't bat an eyelid when they see someone different whereas others will point things out and laugh. Which is the better point of view here? There is never a time and a place for respect for everybody, that should be consistent and always.

@YourSarcasmIsDripping although everyone goes on about how looks don't matter so why should it matter if you dont choose to look the same as everyone else? Does that mean you won't learn at the same rate as other children? Some rules should be questioned and that is one of them. Yes a lot shouldn't and these are ones that keep children safe etc but having a bit of paint in your nails is not harming anyone and I doubt the parent has forced them to have it done for some weird beauty standards. My little boy is 3 and always has pink balls because he wants them doing. I see no issue with it. If they didn't want it then I wouldn't do it. I don't suggest these things they come out and ask and o decide whether I need to say no or not.

Oh my god it was meant to say pink NAILS I am crying with laughter hahahahaha

😂

SparklesAndUnicorns
Not once have I said people shouldn't respect each other. Nor have I said it's acceptable to point and laugh at people who are different. Believing that 6 year old children don't need nail varnish and hair dye to express themselves doesn't mean people don't believe in equality. That's a bizarre jump.

You can think rainbow hair and brown hair are the same. The reality is one is a natural hair colour and the other is a deliberate statement to stand out and look different (and can look cool depending on how it's done but it's a statement nonetheless, nobody gets rainbow hair and is then surprised that it's unusual).
I don't believe rainbow hair on a 6 year old is any more acceptable than a 6 year old with highlights. I don't believe that 6 years old is the time or place for dying hair, regularly having nails done, faces full of make up, fake tan etc and that's my opinion whether it's done in a rainbow hair quirky way or a super glammed up toddlers in tiaras way. They are children.

I don't believe that 6 years old is the time or place for dying hair, regularly having nails done, faces full of make up, fake tan etc and that's my opinion whether it's done in a rainbow hair quirky way or a super glammed up toddlers in tiaras way. They are children.

This. There’s plenty of time for all that. At 6 they should be playing, learning and being taught how to care for others and do as they are asked. Not worrying about their hair.

herculepoirot2
Oh I really wanted my unique hair as a child! But thankfully I had my parents who said it's not appropriate at that age and let me have a more age appropriate creative hair style for parties.

It didn't scar me for life. I didn't go through school feeling like I wasn't an individual. I got older and did the different colours thing and developed a healthy respect for the fact that places have rules, I'll like some and not others.

And I've still managed to be that slightly cynical member of staff in the staff room when someone announces another half-baked initiative.

@SparklesAndUnicorns however i have seen 8yo girls in leather skirts in schools. 7 yos in tight black minis and fitted school shirts and refusing to wear a different kind. And similar aged girls having a meltdown after swimming because their hair is ruined. And I think that's sad and even if it seems bonkers to reasonable parents children(girls in particular )really should be protected by such constraints especially at such a young age. They don't play as much as the other children either because they actually can't or don't want to get messy/dirty/ruin their hair.

Some parents ruin it for the rest of us, they also fuck up their own kids experiences.

I kind of wish DDs school had these type of rules. She's much older (11), but spends a ridiculous amount of time doing her hair in the morning- to the point it's always a rush out the door to get to school on time.

I also think encouraging fashion in school always has a knock on affect. If one girl gets their ears pierced, suddenly twenty of them have it done and your own DC with no piercings is the odd one out which makes parents feel pressure. If one has fancy hair for school she will get attention for that and the rest will want to follow. Esp as they get older, things like this start to become competitive or turn into bullying.

Boys don't seem to have these issues.

Have you seen the size of those nows? They are a health and safety hazard

Why would a six year old even care about hair and nails? One of the saddest parties my dd went to was one of those makeover ones at the age of 9. She hated the hair/nails/lipstick thing. I had to ask the lady doing it to take the lipstick off, as dd hated herself in it so much.

Now at 14 she is big on make-up and I know it’s the weekend when the scent of nail varnish is strong. She will be the first to get a tattoo, hair dye and piercings when she is finished with school - that’s fine though-it’s age appropriate to the freedom of being a late teen. In the meantime I like the plainness of school uniform which indicates a certain working week seriousness and the burst of weekend makeup and funky clothing. It’s what a lot of grown-ups do too. I think it’s quite healthy.