To think banning stuff from schools is stupid

[SparklesAndUnicorns]

I like to think I'm quite a 'progressive' parent and I like my children to express themselves how they feel most comfortable, they tend to pick and wear what they want over the weekends and I do let them ocassionally change their hair colours with semi permanent safe dyes.
I agree with school uniform but my daughters school doesn't even allow hair bows, she went in with a few braids and bows in the other day and came home with a messy ponytail in and told me the teacher had taken them out. Teacher explained it's against school rules to have more than one bow in their hair. Aibu to think rules like no nail varnish, no hair accessories and no hair dye is just ridiculous rules? How is this going to effect their learning? She is only 6 and I really don't understand the reasoning. Surely if it's a bullying thing then this is down to parenting your child to accept that everyone is different, I can't see how it's a health and safety issue like piercings would be, I do agree to remove earrings on PE days as I can understand that one, but the others seem strange to me. Would love to know others feelings and opinions on this

@YourSarcasmIsDripping yaaas! Mine is pink and orange at the moment, love it!

Parents need to accept that their kid of 6 or so must knuckle down like everyone else's and do as they're told.

Within reason. You can't expect schools to encourage and develop logic and critical thinking and at the same time expect kids to act like robots 100% of the time. Not to mention that by law we have to make allowances and adjustments for SEND children(which might not be relevant to nail polish and hair dye, but it can be when it comes to uniform,school shoes etc).

You can't expect schools to encourage and develop logic and critical thinking and at the same time expect kids to act like robots 100% of the time.

I don’t know. When I was growing up, you did as you were told at 6. Didn’t stop people growing up with the ability to think. It’s about what’s age-appropriate.

It depends on what you see as "top", but generally the ones that are higher up in PISA (although my opinions on PISA are very critical).

Japan is an exception, and I think their education system is vile. Have a Google of the child suicide issues there because of the immense pressure to achieve. England is attempting to go down that route, but it won't ever happen to the same extent for many, many reasons.

All these issues are too big to go into on Mumsnet. Children are people and deserve to be treated as such. Hair colour has no impact on learning. Clothes should be less restrictive. Some rules should be challenged. Education shouldn't be about churning out robots.

@YourSarcasmIsDripping I agree with this, no wonder why some kids come out of school and have huge meltdowns. Because they've been holding in all those emotions all day and finally feel safe enough in our presence to let it rip. They're not robots like you said

Hercule - back then, schools were teaching children for different jobs than they are now. Critical thinking, questioning and challenging ideas are imperative for future roles.

Girls grooming each other is very common in primary and I guess they want to cut that down.

And dip dying a 6 yo hair. WTF!!!!

Maybe save the nail varnish, multiple bows and hair dye for the holidays?

Critical thinking, questioning and challenging ideas are imperative for future roles.

So people keep saying, but I’ve seen little evidence of anyone thinking more critically, just being more whiny and argumentative when anyone asks them to do anything they don’t like. It’s hair bows, not the French Resistance. It doesn’t teach anything other than “Your appearance is more important than other people’s right to learn.”

Home school if you feel that strongly or find an independent school that shares your ethos.

@madeyemoodysmum I had to have a word with some other mums about that and told my daughter not to play hairdressers after she got a hair bobble stuck in her hair and I had to cut it out. But that's teaching kids about keeping their hands to themselves.

Semipermanent hair dye fades within a few washes and your opinion on my child's appearance was not asked for (again) but thank you anyway.

I like rules regarding uniform. All the same, no competition etc. The problem ds’s high school has is girls wearing short tight tube skirts. Ds and his friends say they are embarrassing. For example a girl sat in front of them, stands up and leans over the table, therefore giving everyone behind an eyeful of her underwear. They may be teen boys, but not everything is wanted by them!

@madeyemoodysmum also I never said I hated school or anything along those lines you seem very negative about others expressing their opinions on different things. I just said I thought some rules were a bit silly and wondered what others thought. I never said I was going to pull her out of school and I hate all rules :)

@MamamaMadness you sound like a teacher I would hope my son would have in the future.

Backing the kid up against the school is disastrous in the long run; when the kid is a teenager they'll have no respect for authority and the parents' lives will become REALLY hard

I completely disagree and am living proof of that. I absolutely respect authority along with respecting my parents as we were growing up. But I was raised that it was ok to ask "why" something is so. I was not a sheep who just blindly followed the herd. It is not ok to be rude or disrespectful but is ok to challenge ideas. It helps grow the mind and personality, children are individuals and should be treated a such.

My parents have backed both myself and my brother up when teachers have been in the wrong. The teachers have then duly given us the apology we deserved. But they have backed the school if we were in the wrong.

Surely you should be able to explain why a rule is so if you are going to enforce it. I'm not saying you have to agree it to follow it, but it should be able to be explained to you.

@SnowyAlpsandPeaks oh wow yes I do agree with uniform when it comes down to short skirts and stuff for girls.

My daughter used to have two hair bows in her hair who knew I was being a rebel

There's a big difference between being rude and disrespectful, and not following certain rules.

I wouldn't be happy if a child of mine followed certain ideology blindly, for example, without questioning it.

@bourbonbiccy you have a great outlook on all of this. I like all the points you and @MamamaMadness are making. These things should be addressed

@slipperywhensparticus hahaha ooohhh rule breaker

I don’t know. When I was growing up, you did as you were told at 6. Didn’t stop people growing up with the ability to think. It’s about what’s age-appropriate.

Because reasoning is a big thing in schools,even at 6. We ask them a billion times why,how, what's their opinion and to justify it. It's only normal (no matter how annoying it is) that they will ask why back. Sometimes it's appropriate,sometimes it isn't.. and the way to learn that is by asking the question to begin with.

Yes I sometimes tell them I'm not having a debate,this is what they're doing . I also allow them to have choices, to have a heated debate about God (sadly not a lot of time for it) and to just be. I can give them a few minutes to faff and chatter in the middle of a long,hard piece of writing. We can have a joke and mess around and teach them about sarcasm.
Most of my kids like and respect me, not just that but they know when messing about is over just by a change of expression. Most importantly they know that no matter in how much shit they are in this lesson, the next one I'll offer a smile,support if needed and praise if earned. Or the other way around.

LolaSmilesso you can't be creative depending on your age?
I believe that anyone can be creative but how much freedom and flexibility you get depends on your age.
I don't expect to allow a 3 year old to decide if they want to clean their teeth, or a 8 year old to decide what their bed time is or a 12 year old to decide they want an eyebrow piercing. We accept that children are children who have parents and carers to make decisions for them.

I get there's a time and a place I remove one of my piercings for work but that's a safety issue rather than anything because I don't want my nose being ripped off by a four year old haha
A facial piercing in secondary education isn't likely to be an issue in my subject, but life is life. Places have rules.
Fair is fair but would be nice to see a change in people's opinions of looks over anything else. Like people not hiring heavily tattooed people it gets silly and is nothing to do whether the person can do their job or learn at school.
People invest in their looks precisely because it shows a certain image. They can't then get annoyed if people don't appreciate that image.
If someone chooses to get loads of facial tattoos, then that's probably to highlight that they're creative and different and they know that it's not the norm in the UK. They can't then get annoyed if people don't love the look.
Equally, if someone turns up to an interview glammed up for a night on the town, fake hair, loads of makeup etc, they can't be annoyed if people take that look at face value.
I always find people who place a large emphasis on looks and creativity and self expression are the first to say that looks don't matter anyway, but if that's the case why the big push to mark themselves out as being super different and unique?

@YourSarcasmIsDripping amazing way to teach. I'm glad ways are changing

Also, those who think that school rules about appearance should be blindly followed, what about the gypsy traveller child in my class, whose father came in to thank me for letting her wear her small gold hoop earrings without a fuss, as it was important to her culture? Or the Ghanaian child with multicoloured beads at the ends of her (dyed red and purple) braids that were part of a celebration she attended, also within her culture?

Should they be denied of links to their culture when it doesn't have any significance in the classroom or with regards to their learning abilities?

YourSarcasmIsDripping

Yes, and that’s fine, but I am not talking about children who are genuinely critical. I am talking about children who are being taught that being critical means being argumentative - e.g. not knowing when no means no, or when “time and place” means not now, rather than “let’s have a debate”. I think the movement in schools is towards more pointless argument, not more thought.

Hair dye and nail polish for a 6 year, for school? Who are you, Katie Price?