To think banning stuff from schools is stupid

[SparklesAndUnicorns]

I like to think I'm quite a 'progressive' parent and I like my children to express themselves how they feel most comfortable, they tend to pick and wear what they want over the weekends and I do let them ocassionally change their hair colours with semi permanent safe dyes.
I agree with school uniform but my daughters school doesn't even allow hair bows, she went in with a few braids and bows in the other day and came home with a messy ponytail in and told me the teacher had taken them out. Teacher explained it's against school rules to have more than one bow in their hair. Aibu to think rules like no nail varnish, no hair accessories and no hair dye is just ridiculous rules? How is this going to effect their learning? She is only 6 and I really don't understand the reasoning. Surely if it's a bullying thing then this is down to parenting your child to accept that everyone is different, I can't see how it's a health and safety issue like piercings would be, I do agree to remove earrings on PE days as I can understand that one, but the others seem strange to me. Would love to know others feelings and opinions on this

I don't think it's particularly progressive to encourage your young daughter to tart herself up for school. And dying a 6yr old's hair is ridiculous. Why don't you teach her that she's fine just the way she is?

My DD has access to her teachers before/after school and at break/lunch time and in tutor time by appointment. The email addresses are an additional if they don't happen to catch the teacher.

In other words, the teachers never get a break.

But what do you read into it?

That kids can't access teachers. I don't think the why and wherefore is particulary important - especially as I think its foolish trying to infer rationale from a very sparse letter.

What is important is there is a secondary school where if you get a school bus (which includes kids on subsidised transport) you can't access staff.

In other words, the teachers never get a break

It's the rules of the school, the staff merely have to implement them, right?

JacquesHammer

I read into it that the teachers have gotten very fed up with their time being pissed up the wall and the Head is supporting them and setting boundaries.

Look, I have no problem with students looking for me at break or lunch when they have a genuine issue. The problem comes when they are encouraged to think everything is an issue. No, I don’t want to spend my break “critically debating” the uniform policy with a 12 year old. Why would I? If their parent has a problem with the uniform, they need to see the Head.

Teachers have had enough, I suspect.

It's the rules of the school, the staff merely have to implement them, right?

I don’t understand you.

I read into it that the teachers have gotten very fed up with their time being pissed up the wall and the Head is supporting them and setting boundaries

Or maybe you've got it wrong? Equally as possible. Either way though, it isn't a fair rule that excludes a percentage of children without adjustment made.

In an event, I'm so glad that the entire of DD's education career so far has been with accessible staff.

At the prep teachers ate in the dining room with them every day.

Now she can visit/mail/chat to teachers when/if she needs.

@JacquesHammer Sorry, yes, you do quite clearly say it's a friend of DD 😳😳😳
Yes, that's not great is it. A child should have access to support whilst in school.

No one said a teacher couldn't deal with a child asking them a question, however there are times and places for rules to be questioned and debated. The start of maths is not one of them

I was not referring it back to a specific post sorry it wasn't suppose to relate back to a math class scenario on a previous post , but Yes I completely agree, it is not the right time, so the teacher surely should say "wait at the end of the day/class and I will explain"

JacquesHammer

But in the state system teachers aren’t paid for lunch. They are entitled to the same employment breaks as any other worker. So while I am happy to spend a minute at the beginning of my lunchtime explaining a simple rule to a child, that’s where it ends. If the child wants a genuine debate with me on an adult level, they can find a topic worth my time, research it, interest me with their arguments and speak to me with something resembling respect.

Sounds like a sensible Head.

I grew up in Canada, where you can wear whatever you want and your hair is your hair. I genuinely do not see the issue with children choosing how they look

I think many people reading this thread who have a different experience of primary/secondary schooling elsewhere in the world will find this thread hilarious/batshit/inexplicable at different turns.

I'm reading, slightly agog at the 'forcefully expressed' opinions here. The UK (well, the MN version) view of school uniform and it's vital place in the world is something I literally haven't experienced elsewhere.

But in the state system teachers aren’t paid for lunch. They are entitled to the same employment breaks as any other worker. So while I am happy to spend a minute at the beginning of my lunchtime explaining a simple rule to a child, that’s where it ends. If the child wants a genuine debate with me on an adult level, they can find a topic worth my time, research it, interest me with their arguments and speak to me with something resembling respect

DD is AT a state school...

But you're seriously telling me you think a head that excludes a proportion of children from accessing teachers AT ALL is sensible? You seem very unwilling to address that point.

"wait at the end of the day/class and I will explain"

Yes of course, and when that explanation is: " Its part of the rules of the school". Where do we go from there.

If the school rules are genuinely an issue that parents and children feel strongly about then they can follow the processes to bring about change. However, once the rules are in place, this is how change needs to be brought about not challenging the rules at a whim. You need also to have the "it doesn't effect their education" argument. In the majority of cases, no, a uniform or rules on appearance don't, however they do in a minority of situations and schools need to function for all of their pupils, not just the majority.

But you're seriously telling me you think a head that excludes a proportion of children from accessing teachers AT ALL is sensible? You seem very unwilling to address that point.

Not unwilling at all. It sounds like a measure taken because something is going very wrong with the way students are using their teachers’ time, and good will has been used up as a result. It’s not ideal, but it’s what will happen more and more, because the government is finally (belatedly) waking up to the crisis engulfing the teaching profession, Ofsted are including the reasonableness of workload in their judgments, and Heads are getting the message.

If students don’t respect teachers’ right to a break, their access will be taken away. Good lesson.

If students don’t respect teachers’ right to a break, their access will be taken away. Good lesson

Not really. But then I think blunt lessons are a lazy education method. "Whole school" sanctions are foolish.

So kids on transport can't access help, grades as a result start to decline. Great lesson.

Emma ah yes, blazers. That have to be worn at all times otherwise it'll be anarchy, anarchy I tell you. It's going to be scorrchio this week, I assume we'll have the usual swathe of posts about kids sweltering in blazers whilst the staff waft about in summer frocks, and the usual idiots defending this who may or may not be on this thread.

hercule still waiting a response to my actual question, not the question you want me to be asking you, but I won't hold my breath.

hercule still waiting a response to my actual question, not the question you want me to be asking you, but I won't hold my breath.

I answered you. If you’re unable to understand my answer, sorry about that.

CassianAndor

DD's school doesn't do blazers, the girls have an option of mini-skirts and has an open door bathroom policy

Can you hear the pearl clutching

So kids on transport can't access help, grades as a result start to decline. Great lesson.

Well, let us know. I suspect that won’t happen. Students will, instead, begin to understand the value of their teachers’ time, and stop wasting it.

"Can you hear the pearl clutching "

That's fine, if that's what works for them, I know of lots of places where it wouldn't though.

The blazers? Meh, said before I don't give two hoots about uniform, but once there are rules, they need to be enforced, or changed in the proper manner, not argued over repeatedly.

Well, let us know. I suspect that won’t happen. Students will, instead, begin to understand the value of their teachers’ time, and stop wasting it

Well DD's friend had - when I spoke to her mum on Friday - been trying for a fortnight to access some assistance, and had to turn in her assignment without actually getting any.

So it absolutely is happening. And kids like DD's friend are failed because the school try lazy sanction methods.

Meh, said before I don't give two hoots about uniform, but once there are rules, they need to be enforced, or changed in the proper manner, not argued over repeatedly

With two points though: -

As i said earlier, not everyone gets a "choice" when it comes to education.

When rules are changed mid-year it isn't always reasonable to expect people to suck it up! Especially when it has a negative impact on their children's education.

Well DD's friend had - when I spoke to her mum on Friday - been trying for a fortnight to access some assistance, and had to turn in her assignment without actually getting any

And she can’t ask in class because...?

"When rules are changed mid-year it isn't always reasonable to expect people to suck it up! "

Except for when things have become an issue over the year?

Remember fidget spinners? Oh so good for concentrating until everyone has one is is constantly fiddling all the time. Or the ones that actually came in ninja star throwing shapes, and got pelted down the corridor.

Remember the trend for big flowers in girls hair? All well and good till someone uses the pin to attack another student.

Steel capped Caterpillar boots as school shoes? (showing my age now).

There are good reasons to change things mid year. As I said, challenging the rules is fine, but in the proper manner, not a barrack room lawyer way.

And she can’t ask in class because

She did. They ran out of time in the two lessons in the two week period because now, instead of accessing the staff at different times, they're all trying to do it at once.

I can understand limiting access to staff.

When you have a revolving door policy ( especially when you teach 6th form who are always around) actually getting time to do your job can be challenging.

Luckily for me, as an A level only teacher, my year ended about a week after half term.