To think banning stuff from schools is stupid

[SparklesAndUnicorns]

I like to think I'm quite a 'progressive' parent and I like my children to express themselves how they feel most comfortable, they tend to pick and wear what they want over the weekends and I do let them ocassionally change their hair colours with semi permanent safe dyes.
I agree with school uniform but my daughters school doesn't even allow hair bows, she went in with a few braids and bows in the other day and came home with a messy ponytail in and told me the teacher had taken them out. Teacher explained it's against school rules to have more than one bow in their hair. Aibu to think rules like no nail varnish, no hair accessories and no hair dye is just ridiculous rules? How is this going to effect their learning? She is only 6 and I really don't understand the reasoning. Surely if it's a bullying thing then this is down to parenting your child to accept that everyone is different, I can't see how it's a health and safety issue like piercings would be, I do agree to remove earrings on PE days as I can understand that one, but the others seem strange to me. Would love to know others feelings and opinions on this

"You can't enforce any rule unless all the teachers are consistent in dealing with it all the time, not just in their own lessons."

I fully agree, which is why teachers who "just let it go" are letting down their colleagues majorly.

I think the problem with rules is that, actually most kids don't actually need them to get on with what they need to be doing, its the same as the law, however SOME do, and therefore the rules have to be applied to everyone.

hercule that's not answering my question. I didn't ask about the rules and the enforcement of them, I asked how bows and untucked shirts are a barrier to learning. Not 'how is not following the school's random rules a barrier to learning'.

hercule that's not answering my question. I didn't ask about the rules and the enforcement of them, I asked how bows and untucked shirts are a barrier to learning. Not 'how is not following the school's random rules a barrier to learning'.

I have answered your question. In a school, the children who think they can choose which rules to follow are testing boundaries. By allowing them to walk over one boundary, you are encouraging them to test the others.

I could not give one shit whether students wear uniform, providing there are no bullying issues about it (that’s another thread). But I do very much care whether the first thing a student does when they walk through my door is get away with ignoring schools rules.

Wow, some people on here really need to calm down and take a look in the mirror when they are trying to advise and educate about respecting people !!!

I have had to complain to the school about my dc's teacher's inability to control their class on quite a few occasions and as I've mentioned the uniform is very strict, maybe someone should tell these teachers about the magic of the untucked shirt! 

Haha yep don't sweat the small stuff. I know that a lot if children flourish and learn better in a more relaxed environment however I do agree with a simple uniform of white shirt, dark trousers or skirt, a blazer. Done. But concentrating on bows in hair ....come on !!! Which "think tank " decided one bow was less distracting than 2, Did 3 just turn all the children into hooligans 😂😂😂

Respect should be given to everyone, but that does not mean they can not be challenged in a respectful way. I do not agree with just because you are higher up in an org chart, older in years or longer standing in a particular role your word goes unquestioned, imagine if we followed this rule in the big wide world, progression would never happen.
There is also a massive difference in being compliant and having respect for someone. I can count on one hand the teachers I had through school that I respected. I was well behaved but due to their rigid style of teaching ,which was often ineffective, I didn't have one ounce of respect for them as a professional in the field they had chosen.

Why do children not get to say 'but I find it really uncomfortable and distracting and I can't concentrate'?

I agree Cassian. Blazers (for girls and boys) being a particularly ridiculous example.

School uniform has no bearing on how people might end up dressing for work.

Respect should be given to everyone, but that does not mean they can not be challenged in a respectful way. I do not agree with just because you are higher up in an org chart, older in years or longer standing in a particular role your word goes unquestioned, imagine if we followed this rule in the big wide world, progression would never happen.

Whereas this is exactly how it works in the real world. If you have a serious problem, you sit down with your manager and raise an issue politely. You don’t interrupt them when they’re presenting in a meeting to ask why you have to wear a tie. Because you’d get fired. That’s the difference, really.

And yes, it is sometimes fine to say to children that it is not the time or place for them to be questioning adults. The relationship between teacher and pupil isn’t the same as a relationship between colleagues.

Why do parents choose schools that have uniform rules and then expect the rules to be changed for them?

As said, the majority of parents back uniforms according to research.

And yes, it is sometimes fine to say to children that it is not the time or place for them to be questioning adults. The relationship between teacher and pupil isn’t the same as a relationship between colleagues

At which point it would be useful for the teacher to indicate when the student can discuss the matter with them?

Why do parents choose schools that have uniform rules and then expect the rules to be changed for them?

Do you not attend a school that's in your area ? I didn't think you could just pick any school for your child to attend

At which point it would be useful for the teacher to indicate when the student can discuss the matter with them?

Sure. With respectful children, that’s one good way of dealing with it, because when you say, “Let’s talk about this at the end of the lesson, Simon,” Simon says okay and starts work.

But if you knew about the rules before you started, surely then its down to you to deal with the child's questions?

What can an individual teacher do about school rules? Make a suggestion to the head?

Where does it go from there?

Why do parents choose schools that have uniform rules Do you honestly not know the answer to that question - I’m sure it has been explained repeatedly. But once again for those at the back 🤨 -There is no choice!

There is no choice ok.

But then if the rules existed at the school before your arrival, why do you expect them to change for you?

Surely rather than having the need for rules in the classroom its down to you as a parent to campaign for their change, and raise support of other parents.

Rather than have the minutiae of every rule debated in the class.

Surely rather than having the need for rules explained in the classroom - that should read.

Sure. With respectful children, that’s one good way of dealing with it, because when you say, “Let’s talk about this at the end of the lesson, Simon,” Simon says okay and starts work

Right - and I agree the best possible course of action. However not all schools do this. A friend of DD's is at a school where currently they have NO access to their teachers apart from in a lesson.

Conversely pupils at DD's school (and parents) have teachers' email addresses.

Why do parents choose schools that have uniform rules and then expect the rules to be changed for them?

Because it is a myth that every parent has a choice when selecting schools. You can express a preference, nothing more.

friend of DD's is at a school where currently they have NO access to their teachers apart from in a lesson. Conversely pupils at DD's school (and parents) have teachers' email addresses.

But do you know why this is happening?

But do you know why this is happening?

Alteration of school rules to "trial new method" of "time management" (that's from the official communication). Teachers are not to be approached during break or lunchtime. School buses don't leave time for access before or after school.

But then if the rules existed at the school before your arrival, why do you expect them to change for you?

It about changing a rule that you believe to be ignorant in its purpose. If we all just accepted previous rules because they were before us, progression would never happen.

Surely rather than having the need for rules in the classroom its down to you as a parent to campaign for their change, and raise support of other parents.

Yes, I do agree that the parent should create awareness and try to create changes in process and rules. However, I also believe that children have the right to question a teacher if they are trying to enforce that rule. Obviously so long as it's done in a respectful manner. If a teacher cannot deal with a child asking them a question, I feel they may be in the wrong profession.

Alteration of school rules to "trial new method" of "time management" (that's from the official communication). Teachers are not to be approached during break or lunchtime. School buses don't leave time for access before or after school.

And in English? What is the rationale?

A friend of DD's is at a school where currently they have NO access to their teachers apart from in a lesson.

Seriously 😳😳 how does that work, how does your daughter think that's works for her ?
So could she not speak with a teacher over any problems she may be having, would it have to come from you or get via email. Genuinely quite shocked by that.

"I also believe that children have the right to question a teacher if they are trying to enforce that rule"

What choice does the teacher have in enforcing the agreed school rules, that you as a parent agreed to abide by when you sent your child to the school?

No one said a teacher couldn't deal with a child asking them a question, however there are times and places for rules to be questioned and debated. The start of maths is not one of them.

I agree about progressing. If its about changing a rule, its down to the parents to change it in the right manor, This would actually give a child a better lesson in how change is managed, not for it to be up for debate at the whim of a child at the start of a lesson/during a lesson.

All teachers know that kids love a good distraction from what they are supposed to be doing

Alteration of school rules to "trial new method" of "time management" (that's from the official communication). Teachers are not to be approached during break or lunchtime. School buses don't leave time for access before or after school.

So they are trailing it from a time management prospective of the teacher, they don't have time to be talking to them pesky kids.
Bus timetables scheduled so they are finishing school and straight on the bus, no waiting around to maybe catch a chat with a teacher ?

Is that it or have I got it wrong .

And in English? What is the rationale?

Well that's the school's "English" not mine. That is literally the entire communication. Two lines.

bourbonbiccy

My DD has access to her teachers before/after school and at break/lunch time and in tutor time by appointment. The email addresses are an additional if they don't happen to catch the teacher.

My DD's friend is at school where they have no access currently to teachers. If they need help they are meant to ask in lesson time, however there is never time to see everyone who needs help in a single lesson. It's appalling.

Well that's the school's "English" not mine. That is literally the entire communication. Two lines.

But what do you read into it?

So they are trailing it from a time management prospective of the teacher, they don't have time to be talking to them pesky kids.
Bus timetables scheduled so they are finishing school and straight on the bus, no waiting around to maybe catch a chat with a teacher ?

Absolutely correct regarding the buses. No idea regarding whose time management its for the benefit of, letter doesn't make it clear! (But again it's not DD's school, it's a friend of hers. I was speaking to her mum about it last week).