To think banning stuff from schools is stupid

[SparklesAndUnicorns]

I like to think I'm quite a 'progressive' parent and I like my children to express themselves how they feel most comfortable, they tend to pick and wear what they want over the weekends and I do let them ocassionally change their hair colours with semi permanent safe dyes.
I agree with school uniform but my daughters school doesn't even allow hair bows, she went in with a few braids and bows in the other day and came home with a messy ponytail in and told me the teacher had taken them out. Teacher explained it's against school rules to have more than one bow in their hair. Aibu to think rules like no nail varnish, no hair accessories and no hair dye is just ridiculous rules? How is this going to effect their learning? She is only 6 and I really don't understand the reasoning. Surely if it's a bullying thing then this is down to parenting your child to accept that everyone is different, I can't see how it's a health and safety issue like piercings would be, I do agree to remove earrings on PE days as I can understand that one, but the others seem strange to me. Would love to know others feelings and opinions on this

And you’d class a child asking why they couldn’t wear a hair bow as an example of this?

No.

Question (asked at a vaguely appropriate moment): Miss, why aren’t we allowed to wear hair bows?

Answer: “Hair bows are against the rules because they distract from your learning.”

“But I don’t get distracted.”

“No, but the rules have to apply to everyone and some people do.”

What the child does then tells me what I need to know.

OR

Teacher is giving instruction. Child shouts out: “Miss, why can’t I wear my hair bow? This school is STUPID!”

Also tells me.

All a valuable use of your “teaching” time

I grew up in Canada, where you can wear whatever you want and your hair is your hair. I genuinely do not see the issue with children choosing how they look.

JacquesHammer

I wish!

I am talking about children who believe they are engaging in “critical debate” but have actually just been taught rudeness, and an inappropriate sense of their own importance in a class of 30 But wouldn't it be nice if instead of picking on this child's untucked shirt you actually helped the child learn how to engage in critical debate in a polite and socially acceptable way...wouldn't that be lovely for everyone - I know it's a shame their parent were not able to but some people just don't know how to because they haven't been taught either.

Answer: “Hair bows are against the rules because they distract from your learning.”

only that's bullshit. As evidenced by all the schools who don't have rules like this.

But wouldn't it be nice if instead of picking on this child's untucked shirt you actually helped the child learn how to engage in critical debate in a polite and socially acceptable way...wouldn't that be lovely for everyone - I know it's a shame their parent were not able to but some people just don't know how to because they haven't been taught either.

No, it would be inappropriate in a classroom, in the doorway, when 29 other students were either looking on hoping for some entertainment, or wanting to start learning so they can pass their exams. It’s not debate class. There are times when critical debate is appropriate, but there are many more times when a student - who is there to learn - needs to do as they are asked so the adult can get on with teaching the lesson.

CassianAndor

It’s not bullshit.

How does a child having their shirt untucked prevent you from getting on with a lesson?

There are times when critical debate is appropriate, but there are many more times when a student - who is there to learn - needs to do as they are asked so the adult can get on with teaching the lesson

And isn’t it a shame that an untucked shirt prevents a child from learning 🙄

But wouldn't it be nice if instead of picking on this child's untucked shirt you actually helped the child learn how to engage in critical debate in a polite and socially acceptable way...

And also, let’s think about what we are actually teaching, when we do this. That’s it’s okay to derail the lesson. That it’s okay to monopolise the attention of the one resource in the room that the other children need (the teacher). That it’s okay to start a debate about shirts at the start of Maths. and so on.

Time and place.

And isn’t it a shame that an untucked shirt prevents a child from learning 🙄

That’s not my concern as a teacher. I don’t set the policy, but it is my job to enforce it. If a child wants a critical debate about it, that’s fine - they can go and “critically debate” the HT.

Time and place

Quite. And “the start of maths” is a stupid and pointless time to request a shirt be tucked in

That’s not my concern as a teacher

Good job you’re not a teacher isn’t it

And “the start of maths” is a stupid and pointless time to request a shirt be tucked in

Why?

Again with the year 11 argument.

An untucked shirt doesn't prevent a child from learning, nor does a teachers 1 second "tuck your shirt in please" instruction.

Most schools in the UK choose to have uniform, weirdly when setting up new schools, parental consultation shows that most parents prefer it. If you are going to have it as part of the school, it needs to be enforced.

Why?

Because it literally has no bearing on the lesson or the child’s participation therein.

And “the start of maths” is a stupid and pointless time to request a shirt be tucked in

With the added point, that it isn’t the child’s job to tell me my requests are “stupid”, or when they are “stupid”. It’s my job to ask, or I wouldn’t be asking. Respect means respecting that fact.

Because it literally has no bearing on the lesson or the child’s participation therein.

So why am I doing it then? What could possibly be the argument? Let me give you a clue: read the rest of the thread.

hercule prove it, then. Prove exactly how bows or untucked shirts are, in your world, a barrier to learning. They make no difference in the schools in my area, which have extremely diverse intakes. So what exactly is going on in the primaries you have taught at where it is such an issue?

So why am I doing it then? What could possibly be the argument? Let me give you a clue: read the rest of the thread

Oh bless you

I know exactly why you’re issuing these imaginary edicts.

hercule prove it, then. Prove exactly how bows or untucked shirts are, in your world, a barrier to learning.

Because in the schools I have taught at, the rules, which I didn’t set, say the shirts should be tucked in. If the children don’t do it when reminded, it is a sign that they are going to begin my lesson by disrespecting the school rules. How do you think they are going to go on from there?

I know exactly why you’re issuing these imaginary edicts.

Huh? I don’t know what you mean. Either stop being cryptic or talk to someone else. I am getting bored.

If you are going to have it as part of the school, it needs to be enforced.

Consistency is essential, yet is probably lack of consistency across a school that causes a lot of the trouble. Far too many teachers don't challenge pupils for uniform breaches, swearing, etc. It makes it harder on the other teachers who do try. In the Maths class example, one has to question why teachers in earlier classes, registration or just walking down the corridor havn't dealt with the uniform breach. You can't enforce any rule unless all the teachers are consistent in dealing with it all the time, not just in their own lessons.

In the Maths class example, one has to question why teachers in earlier classes, registration or just walking down the corridor havn't dealt with the uniform breach. You can't enforce any rule unless all the teachers are consistent in dealing with it all the time, not just in their own lessons.

Indeed. But if you stop trying, you’re as shit as they are.