To think banning stuff from schools is stupid

[SparklesAndUnicorns]

I like to think I'm quite a 'progressive' parent and I like my children to express themselves how they feel most comfortable, they tend to pick and wear what they want over the weekends and I do let them ocassionally change their hair colours with semi permanent safe dyes.
I agree with school uniform but my daughters school doesn't even allow hair bows, she went in with a few braids and bows in the other day and came home with a messy ponytail in and told me the teacher had taken them out. Teacher explained it's against school rules to have more than one bow in their hair. Aibu to think rules like no nail varnish, no hair accessories and no hair dye is just ridiculous rules? How is this going to effect their learning? She is only 6 and I really don't understand the reasoning. Surely if it's a bullying thing then this is down to parenting your child to accept that everyone is different, I can't see how it's a health and safety issue like piercings would be, I do agree to remove earrings on PE days as I can understand that one, but the others seem strange to me. Would love to know others feelings and opinions on this

Zipee -
Where did I say that being a decent person wasn't taught? I said respect for others comes naturally if you're a decent person. And I like to believe that people are inherently good. Bad traits are learned.

"and concentrate on actually educating children rather than worrying of their shirts are tucked in, or their skirt has a logo on it"

I find no education time at all is given over to this sort of thing anyway, its a bit of a year 11 barrack room lawyer excuse.

Whether you agree with uniform or not, its enforcement rarely impacts curriculum time.

Bad traits are learned, as are good. No one starts being inherently anything.

Whether you agree with uniform or not, its enforcement rarely impacts curriculum time

Really? It has been in the national news many times that children are withdrawn from lessons, put in isolation and sometimes even excluded for wearing incorrect uniform. I'd say that's a severe impact on curriculum time.

No one starts being inherently anything

Actually, much research has shown that humans are hardwired to be compassionate.

Everyone should respect others naturally, if brought up well. It's not a taught thing, it's a natural thing if you're a decent person. Of course a teacher shouldn't have to work to gain respect from their pupils, however if you're a teacher who doesn't respect their pupils in turn, or are degrading/bullying/other nasty traits, then why should you be respected?

Some people aren’t well brought up. They are brought up to show casual disrespect. If you are well brought up, that isn’t “natural” - it’s the product of effort.

The line where I deserve to lose the visible respect of my pupils, though, Mamama: where do you think that is? When should I, as a professional in a safeguarding and educating role, expect to hear, “No, piss off” when asking a child to stop talking? That’s the reality here.

"much research has shown that humans are hardwired to be compassionate."

That's not the same as "decent" is it.

"It has been in the national news many times that children are withdrawn from lessons, put in isolation and sometimes even excluded for wearing incorrect uniform. I'd say that's a severe impact on curriculum time."

Dog bites man isn't news, man bites dog is, you invariably find that these kids get into the news because their mum does a daily Mail sad face article, and that there are two sides to the story.

The majority of students in the country wear uniform, what is the % of students who spend time doing this is?

IWanna we looked at about 8 primaries for DD, 3 of which were non-uniform. All were rated 'good' and were much of a muchness, part from 2 which were 'outstanding'. One with uniform and one without.

At this stage I didn't have any particular view about uniform. But what was noticeable with the two outstanding schools is the huge difference between them and I wonder how much of that was down to an ethos which uniform, or lack thereof, was a big part of. The children in the uniformed school, which had by far and away the strictest uniform of any school we saw, were beautifully smart and well-turned out, and appeared to have had all the vitality sucked out of them. Both DH and I absolutely hated the vibe of the school. In contrast, the non-uniform school felt immediately 'outstanding' in comparison with the other schools we saw, the work looked fantastic, the staff were amazing and the kids who showed us round were so enthusiastic and keen and engaged, in contrast to the mice at the other school.

It certainly made me feel that strict uniform strictly enforced possibly wasn't worth that much.

I don't think you're quite understanding what I'm saying. Yes, there is an issue of disrespect in UK schools, and largely this is due to upbringing, hence the learned behaviour. If a child's parents do not have respect for teachers, then the child won't either. However, tucking a shirt in won't solve these issues. Deprivation is one of the causes, yet it is rarely discussed in recent policy (in England especially).

I didn't say you personally deserve to lose respect from your pupils, and I wouldn't be able to comment on that, as I've never seen you teach. However, I don't know many teachers that would be told to piss off during a lesson. Rarely, perhaps, but not regularly. If that was happening to me, I'd be questioning myself.

." However, I don't know many teachers that would be told to piss off during a lesson. Rarely, perhaps, but not regularly. If that was happening to me, I'd be questioning myself."

Really? Never taught in a sink estate then with a failing management?

I've taught in some very deprived areas. You've never known teachers that aren't abused?

Nope. Almost everyone, not matter your standing gets a bit of verbal, not because they are weak, or poor just because of the situation and people in them.

You aren't as experienced as you think, nor should you be passing judgement on others. This is exactly the type of thing we don't want in the teaching profession.

Confirming that you are "one of those".

"I never have problems"

"Oh they are alright for me"

You know what? Its funny that cause when we hear stories about what goes on in the classrooms of people who say things like this its always the opposite of what the teacher claims.

Um, you were the poster who was rude and patronising to another earlier no?

"I think you need to calm down a little. You're getting rather worked up."

Patronising.

"for that reason I am not going to respond to you any more as you seem a little unhinged upset."

Cause you can't adequately respond to the points.

Gosh you really aren't as good as you think :) :)

However, I don't know many teachers that would be told to piss off during a lesson. Rarely, perhaps, but not regularly. If that was happening to me, I'd be questioning myself.

And this is the problem. Whatever educational contexts you have worked in, you have not seen the result of the more universal application of your views. So you don’t know what you’re on about.

I am envisaging a nice enough school, maybe a y3/4 class, where most of the students are compliant and most of the parents quite nice. Sure, in that environment, who cares about rules? You don’t need them.

Try a secondary with high FSM, high EAL, county lines drug problems, deprivation, knife crime and historically poor outcomes. Don’t tell me rules don’t matter there, because you have never taught anywhere like that, have you?

If that was happening to me, I'd be questioning myself.

And be concluding what? That you must have done something to deserve it? That is the logical progression of your views. That children can do no wrong. That adults are responsible when children have been taught no respect and no manners.

Actually, I agree with that. Adults are responsible. Their parents, and teachers like you who have let them down by allowing them to learn disrespect in the name of “questioning authority”.

Goodness me 😁 So many assumptions. Most amusing.

Their parents, and teachers like you who have let them down by allowing them to learn disrespect in the name of “questioning authority”

Questioning authority isn’t automatically disrespectful. DD’s school encouraged students to question teachers, but also ensured that was done in a reasonable fashion. The two aren’t mutually exclusive.

Your posts are most amusing. Fully of judgey remarks that show no real professional understanding of the role that you are in.

Questioning authority isn’t automatically disrespectful. DD’s school encouraged students to question teachers, but also ensured that was done in a reasonable fashion. The two aren’t mutually exclusive.

And I didn’t say otherwise. I am talking about children who believe they are engaging in “critical debate” but have actually just been taught rudeness, and an inappropriate sense of their own importance in a class of 30.

MamamaMadness

Oh I bet.

I am talking about children who believe they are engaging in “critical debate” but have actually just been taught rudeness, and an inappropriate sense of their own importance in a class of 30

And you’d class a child asking why they couldn’t wear a hair bow as an example of this?