AIBU To judge parents who refuse to pay their contribution to student maintenance loan at Uni?

[ThunderandPharoah]

Have got some friends who are not going to stump up for their parental contribution when their DD starts Uni this year. Can't help thinking that this is a pretty low thing to do as they are not exactly short of money. Would you judge?

No I said quite clearly that teenagers are more expensive than toddlers/preschoolers.

Actually you said "If people truly believe toddlers cost more to send to nursery for a few years than teens at secondary they are in for a really nasty shock."
Speaking as someone who has had toddlers at nursery (unlike you it seems) and has also had teenagers I can tell you that they won't be in for a shock. Although some costs such as food are a bit higher for teenagers they nowhere near outweigh the costs of nursery.

So your choice of nursery for childcare is in your opinion MORE than the cost of having a parent at home full time?....
This is getting a bit obtuse @Dungeondragon15 I’m happy to accept that you personally spent more money on childcare at preschool stage than you do on your teens. For me and I would assume many others the opposite is true. The suggestion that feeding a six foot hungry teen is only a bit more expensive than feeding a toddler is just crap. How COULD it be true. Excursions for preschoolers probably involved the park or a zoo, for someone contemplating university visits to different ones, activities like d of e and school trips come to hundreds of pounds. Unless your teens sit in front of the tv all day I fail to see how you are doing this for less? If you are then bully for you but the vast majority of people I know have never expressed that to me.

So your choice of nursery for childcare is in your opinion MORE than the cost of having a parent at home full time?....

I am not discussing whether it is more or less as it's irrelevant. You didn't say that SAHM who think toddlers who cost more than teenagers are in for a shock. You said that If people truly believe toddlers cost more to send to nursery for a few years than teens at secondary they are in for a really nasty shock.

The suggestion that feeding a six foot hungry teen is only a bit more expensive than feeding a toddler is just crap.

Not everyone's toddler will turn into a six foot hungry teen. Many people will have DDs. When I say a "bit" more I mean about £20 or 30 a week which is tiny compared with the cost of childcare. How much are you saying it costs? The other costs are also much lower than childcare.

I grow tired of this. My “childcare” costs have not changed because they are still met by the same model, that being I stay at home. The “change” in my family is the age of my children and the costs associated with that change. This is the same for many sahm I know. The children come in a variety of both size and sex. On average big dependents cost more than little ones.

Itwouldtakemuchmorethanthis I am not debating whether you as a SAHM found teenagers more expensive than toddlers. I am disagreeing with your statement that people who believe toddlers cost more to send to nursery for a few years than teens at secondary are in for a really nasty shock.

@Itwouldtakemuchmorethanthis -teenagers don't require a SAHM for full-time care though, you could have gone to work. You can't have a toddler take themselves home and heat up their own dinner.in the same way.

No I couldn’t @ScaredOfSister most of the sahm I know are like me unable to work outside the home. Most are in a similar situation to me in that they are full time carers. Not everyone has the same options. Siblings however able don’t figure in the calculations.

"Many people will have DDs"

I have a DD. She eats like a horse. When she was a toddler she would barely eat anything. I would hazard a guess that it probably costs 10x as much to feed her now.

I have a DD. She eats like a horse. When she was a toddler she would barely eat anything. I would hazard a guess that it probably costs 10x as much to feed her now.

Seriously? Did she only eat about 200 calories a day as a todder?

It's not the calories, but what she eats. Like me she is a bit of a foodie and until she goes to university will eat foods that she won't be able to afford when she is there. She is vegetarian, virtually vegan, and a lot of the really good vegan substitutes aren't cheap.

Itwouldtakemuchmorethanthis you can't keep changing your arguments, it's all written down. You initially said I would find teenagers more expensive than childcare for preschoolers. I pointed out that my childcare costs were £15Kpa plus a 20% drop in household income because of working PT and I thought lower costs (max parental contribution is currently ~£5Kpa per child) and higher income (don't need to work PT with children at University) would make it easy to afford. Clearly you didn't have an answer to that because you changed what you were saying to 'but it costs me more than £5K per teenager at the moment' and 'but I don't work so I never had childcare costs except the continued loss of salary'.

don’t be ridiculous. You are talking about your life experience. I am talking from mine. Neither is definitive or unique. Ridiculous suggestions that toddlers eat as much as teenagers or that there clothes or activities cost equivalent amounts are unlikely to be believed by anyone who’s paid for these things. I don’t work outside the house, I do work, though I have no idea why that is relevant. I have honestly never met ANYONE who thinks preschool is the most expensive stage. You are obviously entitled to your opinion but it’s not my experience at all. I can lie and say your posts are so persuasive that I’m going to ignore my lived experience and agree with you, but that would be a bit silly wouldn’t it?

@Itwouldtakemuchmorethanthis - most parents are not at home anyway with another child who has additional needs, that is a small defined group of parents. If you can accept for a moment that most people who have to pay for childcare or not work when they have toddlers can work when they have teenagers. Now, can you see why childcare costs affect.the maths?

don’t be ridiculous. You are talking about your life experience. I am talking from mine.

fgs no one is saying your life experience isn't correct but you're not someone who pays for childcare. It is your statement that people who believe toddlers cost more to send to nursery for a few years than teens at secondary are in for a really nasty shock that people are disagreeing with.

Ridiculous suggestions that toddlers eat as much as teenagers or that there clothes or activities cost equivalent amounts are unlikely to be believed by anyone who’s paid for these things.4

You are clutching at straws now. I didn't say that they cost "equivalent amounts". I said that they don't cost that the extra costs are much lower than childcare. You wouldn't know because you have never paid for childcare. I have done both so do know.

Ridiculous suggestions that toddlers eat as much as teenagers or that there clothes or activities cost equivalent amounts are unlikely to be believed by anyone who’s paid for these things.

You are clutching at straws now. I didn't say that they cost "equivalent amounts". I said that the extra costs are much lower than childcare. You wouldn't know because you have never paid for childcare. I have done both so do know.

ah yes if I ignore the constants it will be MUCH easier to comment on the variables.

It doesn’t matter why I am home full time. That’s why I avoided mentioning it for as long as possible. If I sat at home lunching occasionally the outcome would be the same. There are lots of reasons families choose to do it. Your model involves £15k of childcare for your children paid to a nursery, mine lost salary. Some people will pay far more in school fees. I expect it’s best to comment on the lifestyle you have experience of. MY experience is that the teenage years are significantly more expensive than toddler years. I couldn’t have returned to work in the way you describe (though I DO work and always have just not physically outside the home) but I could equally well have dependent parents, a disability myself or just not be able to secure a job. These aren’t particularly unique scenarios. I think what you are saying really is not “toddlers are more expensive than teenagers” but that in your situation your earning potential is higher so your household is richer now?

What really strikes me is that siblings even the pesky expensive disabled ones don’t feature in the calculations for loans. Your child might be the eldest of eight living on one income that has to be split ten ways and you would still be penalised for “being in a rich household” if your child is a sibling of someone with any significant disability you may be equally disadvantaged. I think THAT is fairly shocking.

Itwouldtakemuchmorethanthis I agree with you that it is best to comment on your own life style but the point is that you didn't. You were specifically commenting that people with a different lifestyle i.e. those with toddlers at nursery are in for a shock if think it is less expensive than teens at secondary school.
You are trying to wriggle your way out now by arguing that you were talking about SAHM but everything you said is in writing so you can't do that!

No I don’t need to wriggle our if anything. You sound a bit odd. I didn’t have to speak as a SAHM or as a WAHM. It’s an open forum where you are more than welcome to post whatever your family set up. Nursery costs were not higher for me than costs of teens and my childcare costs are not “free” anymore than anyone else’s are. I grow weary of your nonsense. Well done for bucking the norm and being able to feed clothe and educate/entertain your teens for less than the cost of a three year old. You are obviously gifted. —or need a calculator and a clear head—. I’m glad it’s all working out for you.

Well done for bucking the norm and being able to feed clothe and educate/entertain your teens for less than the cost of a three year old. You are obviously gifted. —or need a calculator and a clear head—. I’m glad it’s all working out for you.

It is hilarious that you are "tired of my nonsense" considering that you are the one talking nonsense. I didn't say anything about your costs. I was talking about costs for someone who pays "massive childcare costs" because you said that they are in for shock if they think truly believe toddlers cost more to send to nursery for a few years than teens at secondary. Teenagers undoubtly cost more than toddlers if you are a SAHM like yourself who hasn't gone back to work but you can't extrapolate your situation to that of others with a "different lifestyle" and tell them they will also find overall costs of having a teen higher than a toddler at nursery with massive childcare fees.

@Itwouldtakemuchmorethanthis - maybe it would help if you re-read your original posts? You really were saying that those commenting about their high childcare costs were in for a shock when they had teenagers, that's why several people have pulled you up on it. Private school might cost more with teenagers, but it isn't essential. If you can afford private school for each child then their cost to you will reduce at university anyway, so you'd be the last one to say you can't afford it.

Teenagers undoubtly cost more than toddlers if you are a SAHM like yourself who hasn't gone back to work but you can't extrapolate your situation to that of others with a "different lifestyle" and yet that appears to be exactly what you are doing.

The cost of raising teenagers is more than the cost of raising toddlers, in my experience, and is less in yours. This is apparently because some teens eat significantly less than the norm, don’t attend activities that are more expensive than playgroups or child tickets, don’t buy clothes that cost more than toddler clothes and don’t use transport at all. Everything that they do that costs money is optional and because you have chosen to indulge them with for example lunch at school, or a coach to get there and the odd geography trip. SAHM are SO rare they must declare their status before responding to any thread lest they say something that is alien to WOHM and so niche they really should shut the fuck up. If they DO dare to answer any point on a thread they should have their reason for SAH ready to be judged because SAHM are ALL financially irresponsible and lazy.
None of them EVER use nurseries and they don’t incur any financial deficits through being at home.

I

The cost of raising teenagers is more than the cost of raising toddlers, in my experience, and is less in yours.

Yes, but my experience is similar to those with huge childcare costs i.e. the ones you were saying would be in for a shock if they thought they truly believe toddlers cost more to send to nursery for a few years than teens at secondary.

This is apparently because some teens eat significantly less than the norm, don’t attend activities that are more expensive than playgroups or child tickets, don’t buy clothes that cost more than toddler clothes and don’t use transport at all.

OMG. Are you being obtuse or just thick? It is because I am no longer paying huge childcare costs. NOWHERE have I said that my teens eat significantly less than the norm or don't attend activities. Those things do cost more but the extra cost is greatly outweighed by the fact that I don't pay for childcare and this will be the same for other people with massive childcare costs.

Rtft

Itwouldtakemuchmorethanthis Yes you should rtft. In particular read what you said to those commenting about their high childcare costs were in for a shock when they had teenagers because that it what people are disagreeing with you on.