AIBU To judge parents who refuse to pay their contribution to student maintenance loan at Uni?

[ThunderandPharoah]

Have got some friends who are not going to stump up for their parental contribution when their DD starts Uni this year. Can't help thinking that this is a pretty low thing to do as they are not exactly short of money. Would you judge?

'As soon as mine is in the 6th form, I'm starting her Go fund me page'

You really expect other people to work to fund your child's University course?!

Both parents are responsible for working to support their children as best they can (except in the case of disabilities).

Titchy I don’t think it’s correct that it is assumed you are independent when you are over 21

Sorry wasn't clear - 21 at start of course.

Not many people have a spare £475 per month just hanging around even if they do as a household earn over the magic £68k or whatever it was.

Hmm.. You cut off half of my sentence which is seriously irritating. I didn't say that it was not much full stop. I said that it is not much for people having on a good salary if they save over 18 years. Noone is saying that everyone has a spare £475 every month ffs.

@Contraceptionismyfriend you will give them less even than the paltry amount the government allocates for you to give. You expect your children to work while in education so you don’t have to support them. It’s all pretty mean.

Imagine if we had an absent father on here saying those things about their children, how their education was a waste of money, how they might not use it anyway, how the children should support themselves what would we be saying?

Children are not adults at 18. As I have said you are legally obliged to support them to 25 if they are in education. If you aren’t willing to provide for your children, I do think you shouldn’t have them. Many of the posts on here are absolutely shameful.

OralB doubt it as they are doing vocational courses and are doing relevant work experience/ internships
Good degrees will be the thing their prospective employers look at
I know that for a fact as I am in that field

It’s not 21 that you are deemed independent for student finance purposes, it is 25.
Having a child deems you independent, though, and parental income isn’t taken into account. So students with children are awarded differently, even if they are young themselves.

You expect your children to work while in education so you don’t have to support them. It’s all pretty mean.
If they’re adults of course they should support themselves and work

As I said I would like to see parents maintenance obligations to their children enforced

Would you like to explain how you would enforce a payment of an amount dictated by the council that the parents just don't have?!

Our DC1 started University in 2004. We had to declare our income to the LEA. Work had moved me to a different site and it was costing a small fortune to get there, so I was getting a payment for excess fares, which was also taxed. This was included by the LEA as my income. They decided we should pay some stupid amount - can't remember what now but it was £100s per month.

So we lost her Child Benefit and tax credits but had to pay this money that we didn't actually have, with 3 other children at home. She had to work because the money just wasn't there. The council took no account of our mortgage,debts, loans or obligations. They weren't interested that the money ran out before the month did.

Her best friend went at the same time. Her father was at that time on at least 80K, swanning around in a brand new Merc. The family had regular foreign holidays. Because her parents had divorced only her mother's income was taken into account so she got full grant/loan because mother didn't work.

When our DC were born there was no indication that by the time they were 18 they would have to pay tuition fees. We both left school at 16 so how would we know how student finance worked? I believe that in the US you get tax relief on your savings for college, plus can offset local tax against federal? Not what happens here.

The system is totally unfair and should be the same for all students regardless of their parents income.

Do I expect adult who live outside of my home to get a job?!
Absolutely.

Seriously MN helps me understand all the clueless spoilt brats that we have to deal with in work. Turns out they were raised this way.

If they’re adults of course they should support themselves and work

Rightly or wrongly they aren't considered to be independent adults with regard to finances if they are still in education. It isn't their fault that their loan depends on their parents finances.Why should they be penalised because their parents are high earners and either haven't bothered to save and/or intend to keep their money to themselves.

Seriously MN helps me understand all the clueless spoilt brats that we have to deal with in work. Turns out they were raised this way.

So you think that everyone with a degree is a "clueless spoilt brat" because as others have explained, this system isn't new. Students have always been assessed according to their parents income and their parents expected to make up the difference. When I was 18 in the 80s most people got a grant that they didn't have to pay back plus no tuition fees so by your standards even more spoilt and clueless than they are now. When my parents were at university in the 60s they certainly weren't considered adults so even more "clueless and spoilt" according to you.

I've got a degree. I'd say more people I know have degrees than don't.

They are adults. I went to Uni in 09. My parents I thought were very generous with the start of year shop, ferrying me back and forth at term times and the bit of money they'd throw me now and again. Now I'm thinking I should sue.

Throughout the year I'd have three jobs. Two during term time and one during holidays.
Because I was the one who wanted to go to Uni. Because it was my decision to move away.

They are adults. They can join the army, get married, have children!!! And get full time jobs. They can voluntarily move out. The idea that a parent is expected to pay out over a mortgage payments worth of money a month is an absolute piss take.

Uni isn't a surprise. If a 16 year old knows that they want to go to Uni then they need to have a frank discussion with their parents. Get their heads down and start saving.

So if dc want to go to uni, and I say sorry love, can’t afford it...

They go anyway, because they are old enough to make that decision independently, i can then be taken to court and forced to pay?

If it’s the 18 year olds decision to go, knowing it will leave their parents short, what does that say about that person?

If my kids went anyway and then moaned about me not contributing, i’d be very upset.

As an 18 yo they should be able to budget and figure out how to afford it themselves if no money from parents.

Can’t afford it? Don’t go.

There are many things I’m sure my kids want that they haven’t had due to our financial situation. We don’t have the money, they don’t get it. They want it anyway, they save and buy it themselves.

They are adults. I went to Uni in 09. My parents I thought were very generous with the start of year shop, ferrying me back and forth at term times and the bit of money they'd throw me now and again. Now I'm thinking I should sue.

It depends on what kind of loan you got though doesn't it. If your parents were on a low income and you got a full loan then they weren't expected to top it up and you didn't need anymore money to live. If they had a high salary and didn't give you anywhere near the amount that they were expected to then they were far from generous. DH didn't even have parents and so got a full grant and didn't work during term time. Are you saying he was a spoilt brat because he didn't need to work three jobs like you?

"I'd say more people I know have degrees than don't."

I'd say more people I know don't have a degree than do, but I am 60, and back in 1977 when I was 18 a much smaller percentage of 18 year olds went to university.

Why is it always assumed on these threads that at 18 a child automatically becomes a responsible, mature adult? They don't.

@TapasForTwo they are adults though. And nobody is forcing them to go. They can't go on the demand that they must be funded. As an adult they must make weigh up the reality.

They are adults. They can join the army, get married, have children!!! And get full time jobs. They can voluntarily move out. The idea that a parent is expected to pay out over a mortgage payments worth of money a month is an absolute piss take.

But they aren't treated as independent adults if they are still in full time education and that isn't their fault. To say that they should suffer the consequences of you being on a high salary because of a decision made by consecutive governments seems incredibly unkind to them and not something a good parent should do. As I said, DH didn't have parents and he would have been better off as a consequence than your children will be.

And nobody is forcing them to go. They can't go on the demand that they must be funded. As an adult they must make weigh up the reality.

Well they could go if they didn't have you as a parent.

contraception only 43% of the working population have degrees so more people don't have a degree than do.....

Of course they could!
They could use one of the two local universities. They could work and save in the holidays, get jobs at Uni.

You are acting as though if a parent does not hand over the whole amazing the child can't go. Which is bullshit.

@Benes good job I said a majority of people I Know have them than not.

This thread has been really useful in crystallising what we need to do for DS2 (and DS3 next year) in terms of maintenance payments.

I had thought that we would pay for accommodation and ask him to live off the loan, but looking at the figures, we can't easily do that with two of them there at once. So I'll top him up to the full amount of the loan, and he can then work for anything extra he needs. (He's a grafter, so he's already having to be dissuaded from running more than one job in his first term away.)

That will set a better precedent for doing the same for DS3, who needs a push to get a job.

We've just had a discussion about how we come up with an extra £400 a month plus extra pension contributions for my woefully underfunded retirement plus try to leave the six-months-aargh-shit fund intact. We're currently over the top income threshold as a household, but haven't been for very long - I'm self-employed and just started making a reasonable amount out of it last year.

Dumb question - is it assessed on gross income, or net of pension contributions? I would so like to be able to keep making pension contributions...

But you're using your personal experiences to represent the wider population.contraception. As someone who works with this data on a regular basis I find it frustrating to see such misrepresentations and misinformation.

@Benes You have an issue with someone using their personal experience on a chat forum?
Get a grip.

They could use one of the two local universities. They could work and save in the holidays, get jobs at Uni.

Another option would be cut contact with you and be officially estranged so that your income doesn't get taken into account and they receive a full loan. I find it ironic that on the one hand you seem worried that your children will choose a useless degree and on the other you think that it doesn't matter what university they go to. There are differences you know. Some are better than others and the chances of getting a job afterwards also vary. The is also no guarantee that their nearest university would give them a place.

You are acting as though if a parent does not hand over the whole amazing the child can't go. Which is bullshit.

Children do give up on university because their parents don't contribute anything. Full time degree courses aren't designed with the expectation that students fund themselves. I'm not saying a job is impossible for all courses as the hours required certainly vary but it is really difficult for some students if parents don't contribute.