AIBU To judge parents who refuse to pay their contribution to student maintenance loan at Uni?

[ThunderandPharoah]

Have got some friends who are not going to stump up for their parental contribution when their DD starts Uni this year. Can't help thinking that this is a pretty low thing to do as they are not exactly short of money. Would you judge?

Because a degree isn’t a need. Over half of kids leaving school don’t go to university and a lot of those who don’t get decent jobs and are just fine. It’s unbelievable how well Blair’s brain washing worked.

Blimey the middle classes are out in force today

@Durgasarrow I expect to raise my children to understand that they are entitled to nothing.
With careful planning, consideration and work they can achieve realistic goals.

I am already working a hard and making finical decisions to try and create a nest egg for them each. The dream is that they each get a house deposit.
But I wouldn't sink that on a useless degree.

I do begrudge when the young adult has been working 3years part time including a chunk of 9mths full time and has not saved one pence toward uni. And then tells her dad, I’m not sure if I want to do x course she’s chosen (starting in October) anymore and if she doesn’t make an A level grade in a secondary subject, will just take an extra year and redo it... you know instead of maybe thinking about a a different degree or university. All talk has been about how much are YOU giving me for uni so she can decide which uni she goes to.

Nevertheless we will contribute and have it set aside already as does her mum. I’m also glad we have 6yrs before the next goes so we can save up for that one and the ones following.

And I’m guessing you’re saying those whose kids get the full maintenance loans shouldn’t have children . Or are you saying those who can’t affird to fund their dc but pay taxes to enable others to get full maintenance loans are the only ones who shouldn’t have kids?

A degree isn't a need. It can however open a lot of doors (though one should be careful not to generalise given that this isn't true of all degrees) and it can be particularly useful for a child who is academic but not practically minded enough to have a chance of doing well in a trade. And this is why it's so shit that we have the current system, because access to higher education depends at least partially on parental support.

I appreciate that a degree is not an entitlement, but equally from a societal perspective, it's not doing us any good if someone who might be very talented in a particular, degree requiring field is prevented from pursuing it for financial reasons.

The think is, when do your children become adults that are not dependent on you.

Can't help thinking we are infantilising our children by not treating them as adults until they are in their late 20s.

No one should have officially responsibility for their children after the age of 18.

also but higher education isn't just an individual need. Society as whole benefits from a more educated population.
Of course university isn't for everyone but we don't want go back to the system of old where higher education was the preserve of the elite.

@Dungeondragon15 £5K a year.
Except at one point I could potentially have 3 children in university.

It's fairly irrelevant if all three are there at once if you have saved in advance which you should be able to do if you and your DH are on "good money" as you say.

No it's not always. Criminology was the buzz degree when I was in Uni. I don't know a single criminologist. If I'm forking our hundreds of pounds a month then they don't get to book a week away in Spain with their friends.

I said a good degree at a good university is likely to be a good financial decision. I don't think that criminolgy has never counted as a good degree.

I expect to raise my children to understand that they are entitled to nothing.

But you don't expect to raise them so that they will be sensible when it comes to choosing a degree and not blowing their maintenance money on something frivolous. How ironic.

Lol dungeon, so reading your last sentence you are saying that criminolgy (sic) is a GOOD degree

That’s £400 a month!!

Yes, but only those earning a good income have to pay that and they have had 18 years to save.

Lol dungeon, so reading your last sentence you are saying that criminolgy (sic) is a GOOD degree

I should have said that I don't think it has ever" counted not never^. (Bloody dictation software!)

But many will have been on lower incomes previously and worked their way up to earning over the threshold household. We had years on £30k how were we supposed to save them?

Our first DD is starting uni in September. I was surprised that her maintenance loan falls short by £1800 pa. I was surprised because it’s a loan so wondered why she couldn’t borrow what she needed. I’ve increased my hours to pay the difference. She will continue her part time job every holiday period.

Higher education was only the preserve of the elite in terms of intellect. When everyone’s fees were paid for them and the maintenance grant was means tested, every child - no matter what their background - had an equal chance. Blair and his cohort of ministers benefited from that, then pulled the ladder up. Where they thought graduate level jobs were going to come from for the 50% of population they aspired to have degrees, God knows. That’s why degrees have become so devalued.

Can't help thinking we are infantilising our children by not treating them as adults until they are in their late 20s.

If contributing to maintenance costs while at univeristy is "infantilising" then my parents were "infantilised" in the 60s and I was "infantilised" in the 80s. It is not new.

A levels are not the same as degrees in that respect as they are set centrally rather than by the schools themselves.

Most vocational courses are accredited though. So the standard/content of teaching must reach a certain level in order for them to be able to offer the course. In that respect it’s exactly like school qualifications. The main reason for choosing a top tier school is often snobbery rather than about the end result.

Blimey the middle classes are out in force today
🙄

Suggesting people who can afford it should support their children is hardly a groundbreaking suggestion is it?

A large part of the problem is that parents who could afford to, haven’t been paying attention to the way further education is funded and have made no provision for it. It is the norm in every other country which doesn’t have free tertiary education, for parents who can, to have a college fund for children. But too many here just keep harking back to what happened when they were there.

The level of contributions from parents needs to be assessed properly so finance is never a barrier to education, but too often I see people who are financially able to, complain about having to pay for uni on some principle that they believe it should be free.

Interesting that those on £25k are deemed poor enough for their dc to get full loans but those on £30 are so rich they can save for future uni whilst working upvthe career ladder or they shouldn’t have kids.

Yes I judge massively , your dc is receiving a reduced loan based on parental contribution. If your morgage is high that is a choice. It’s incredibly selfish and payments should be taken at source from wages for parents who refuse to pay.

YABU. Who are the SLC to decide what disposable income parents have??!

My parents couldn't stump up the 2k the SLC said they were supposed to

also you're wrong. Higher education was the preserve of the elite and in some cases still is. It's not just about money or intellect. It's about aspiration, attainment, social and cultural capital. It's why students from lower socioeconomic groups are still underrepresented in elite universities and careers.

In some sectors the graduate labour market is bouyant and there are more jobs than graduates.

It's widely accepted in the sector that the 50% target was unachievable. Currently around 43% of the population go to university and it is unlikely to rise above that figure.

I’m happy to help my DD out btw. I wish the system was fairer though. DD’s friend’s father is a millionaire but is divorced from her mother. She is getting full maintenance loan as her mother has no income. DD recieves money from her father.That’s not fair.

Most vocational courses are accredited though. So the standard/content of teaching must reach a certain level in order for them to be able to offer the course. In that respect it’s exactly like school qualifications. The main reason for choosing a top tier school is often snobbery rather than about the end result.

If it is vocational It has to reach a minimum standard for the vocation but that doesn't mean that the degree standard is the same in all universities that run it. Without doubt there are differences and I say that as someone who has taught on a vocational degree. For non vocational course there is a big difference. Do you seriously think that an English degree from Oxford will be of the same standard as some ex college of higher education that lets student in with a couple of low grade A levels?

@M1Mountain

It’s a sliding scale from 25 k to joint income of 60k where you are expected to cough up the full 5k per student a year. Most middle income families I know are squeezed and don’t have a spare £30k for 2 adult children.

From this it sounds as though you believe that most "middle income" families are earning over £60k - for this calculation to work.

The actual situation is very different to that. The actual median household income is between £31,200 and £36,400 per year.

Household income

So, if you're on £60k a year as a household you are way above the average.

The average household would need to top up the loan by £1,250 a year - not the £4,700 that those earning over £62k need to do.