To hate the - why can people not manage without meat for a day?

[jennymanara]

I have a vegan friend who is a bit extreme about it, also have several vegan friends who are not. But this one friend pushes for everything to be meat free. Barbecues together, meals at someone's house, weekends away. Her favourite saying around this is that she can not understand how on earth people can't manage not to have one day, or one meal, or one weekend without meat. My answer is always that the occasion is supposed to be fun, and that means people eating what they want to eat. She always says it is pretty sad if people can not have fun without eating a dead animal.

@dairymilkmonster

Whether vegan or omnivore, people will be malnourished if they don't eat a balanced diet. There are lots of ways to get B12. If not eating enough fortified foods we can take supplements. That information is so easy to find and talked about amongst vegans, it's sad that a few people don't get enough. It doesn't require a B12 obsession 😂😂 soooo much food is fortified with it. And swallowing a tablet a day isn't taxing.

It's also sad that people suffer because of malnourishment when they are not vegan. It's not a vegan issue (lots of living proof of that).

I agree with much of what you say, but being vegan doesn't mean that people don't put huge efforts in to cutting out plastic, ethical clothing etc. Of the people I know (admittedly a smallish sample), vegans are more likely to make a big effort with plastic etc, given that it causes animals and the planet to suffer. However, I am all for any efforts that people make to change their habits to reduce harm to the planet.

Sorry, you're quite right, nothing shameful in not eating meat. Nothing shameful in eating it, either, as far as I'm concerned. Understand you might see it differently. Won't try to humiliate you, embarrass you, or make you seem 'other' for not eating meat - which apparently some meat eaters do. How's that? Just really appreciate it if you could do same. . . basically save the sermons for the church (metaphorically speaking) , not the bbq. . .

Anyway - all I was saying is that I see the OPs friend's point. And no, I don't say 'dead animals' to make myself feel better - it's just how I view meat.

And we’re back to the concept of filters when talking to others if you have any interest in the impact of your language choices on others.

To all those who find vegans offensive, nobody wants to offend you, that is not their agenda. We care more about reducing the suffering of animals than we do about the fact that some people find us tedious. And there's nothing wrong with that.

I eat a balanced diet of veg, fruit, meat etc as we are designed. Yes i can eat the restricted diet vegans like occasionally as long as its not cake as never had a nice vegan cake. However like most people eating is a pleasure and a balance diet is what i prefer, especially if youve good company to enjoy it with.

To all those who find vegans offensive, nobody wants to offend you, that is not their agenda.

I don't find vegans offensive.

Some vegans say offensive things with the absolute intent to offend (and preach and shame).

Just so long as you accept that we don't give a shit about what you care about slookiroo. No offense.

I really don't find vegans offensive. I find tedious sanctimonious vegans who want to push their little barrow at inappropriate times and occasions annoying.

A bit like if I went into a vegan bbq, fired up the barbie, and started smoking up the steak and lamb chops. That would be really offensive, wouldn't it?

We care more about reducing the suffering of animals than we do about the fact that some people find us tedious.

But you don’t care about them quite enough to be encouraging and constructive rather than tedious about it, do you?

Thereby entrenching those who don’t really want to reduce meat but might be persuaded if it was approached the right way.

Oh well.

Also a meat eaters 'right' to eat meat comes at the expense of an animals right to live.

The same is true of eating the vast majority of crops and fruit, unless you either exclusively source supplies from places where you can guarantee that no pesticides are ever used or otherwise make do with whatever insects and other animals have voluntarily left or already picked over.

To survive, we need food; to obtain every single bit of that food requires that the life of previously living organisms be ended so that we can eat them (or beat them to the food that both they and we want).

Unless you restrict yourself to foodstuffs that have ceased to live naturally (such as fruit falling from a tree), by accident (roadkill) or by an animal acting on instinct (chickens taken merely for sport by foxes), then you have been directly responsible for the death of a living organism in pursuit of your own survival.

Everybody is free to choose their own ethical boundaries as to what kind of death(s) they deem acceptable to provide themselves with food and thus continued survival, but there's no black-and-white binary 'kill for food' vs 'don't kill for food' scenario.

Here's an interesting snippet...you'll all know that the singer, writer and right wing bigot Morrissey is a militant vegetarian who speaks of chargrilled dead animal flesh whenever he can. But it's his old bandmate Johnny Marr who's the vegan yet rarely speaks of it. Funny how the more 'righteous' of the two is also infinitely less preachy.

I dislike such virtue signallers.

My husband had been vegetarian for 35 years, for spiritual reasons. But he’s never imposed that on me or anyone else, and he’d be appalled at your friend’s attitude. He has no issue cooking meat, either. Two of our children eat meat, one has been vegetarian since age 15.

I do try to cook several meat free meals a week, primarily for health. I’d have no issue with a vegetarian wedding if the food were well thought out and tasty. One thing I despise, though, is vegetarian meals textured to be like meat, or worse, to “taste” like meat. It’s stupid and never works.

To survive, we need food; to obtain every single bit of that food requires that the life of previously living organisms be ended so that we can eat them (or beat them to the food that both they and we want). Well put

Yup. Eating is a selfish thing: it either robs something else of its life, or robs something else of its food. Kidding yourself if you think you can bypass this.

Jaxhog being made to eat something is completely different to not being given something. Suggesting that not offering you meat is the same as not providing meat free food is ridiculous. You eat meat. That's all well and good but would you be happy to be served up boiled kitten and endangered gorilla flesh? I suspect not. Omitting a good is NOT the same as only being given food you don't/can't eat.

malificent I suspect everyone including vegans would hunt if it came down to survival. People would even eat other people if it came down to actual survival.

Wow, so many people on here saying that all meals must contain meat. We all know that high meat consumption is bad for our bodies and bad for the planet. Amazing how head in the sand people can be. You really shouldn't be eating meat at every meal.

“A bit like if I went into a vegan bbq, fired up the barbie, and started smoking up the steak and lamb chops. That would be really offensive, wouldn't it?”

I’m struggling to think of anything a vegan could do that would be remotely comparable. What were you thinking of?

Op , I think that your friend is unreasonable. But I think vegans are so 'militant' is that the way us humans use and abuse animals is cruel. Really there is no humane way to kill an animal who doesn't want to die. They get beaten, shot , gassed , grinded up, fur ripped off, boiled, skinned alive throats slit etc. It's terrifying for them and horrible for most to watch.

I think vegans should educate , but at the end of the day it comes down to personal values, which I don't think should be enforced.

Humans eat too much meat, it is over produced and the animals suffer as a result. Actually, so do we aswell.

We all know that high meat consumption is bad for our bodies and bad for the planet. Amazing how head in the sand people can be. You really shouldn't be eating meat at every meal.

I presume that you've deliberately had no children, never travel in an engine-powered vehicle and never fly and never drink any alcohol, then?

If any of my assumptions is incorrect, who is the official arbiter of exactly how bad for the planet and our bodies our individual actions are allowed to be before people are allowed to berate us for our choices?

GibbonLover

Hmm, interesting - now why doesn't that surprise me?

As many PPs have said, only the dullest, most boorish people have an issue with people choosing a diet that fits their own beliefs and requirements - it's the ones who are determined to dictate to others what they should choose for themselves that people can't stand.

For many people, veganism has effectively become their religion, which is fine. However, whilst most people will be happy to have a friendly, respectful discussion about differing beliefs and outlooks in context and at appropriate times, nobody wants the 21st Century Crusades.

However utterly convinced you are that your decision can be the only correct one, you don't get any more or fewer decisions on a matter than anybody else - it's strictly one per person.

Really there is no humane way to kill an animal who doesn't want to die. They get beaten, shot , gassed , grinded up, fur ripped off, boiled, skinned alive throats slit etc. It's terrifying for them and horrible for most to watch.

Yes, there are many barbarically cruel methods that some people use to kill animals, but it's perfectly possible to stun them and then make a quick, near-instant kill. I know you'd probably still object to this (which is fine), but it's worlds apart from dropping a living animal into a pan of boiling oil.

I think vegans should educate , but at the end of the day it comes down to personal values, which I don't think should be enforced.

It's the use of the word 'educate', though, that annoys so many people. I'm always suspicious of any use of the word when applied to adults (outside of university/night school etc). Meat-eaters know very well that an animal was killed to produce their meat - what do they need to be educated on? The fact that some people see this as morally wrong?

It's a bit like the abortion debate - some people see it as the clear murder of a human life and can't understand why anybody wouldn't realise this; others see it as a cluster of random cells and/or a wholly-dependent/parasitic potential life and can't understand why anybody wouldn't realise that the life, health, wellbeing and bodily autonomy of an adult woman are much more important than any perceived rights of the contents of her uterus.

Pro-life protesters who put massive gruesome pictures and slogans relating to abortions on display in public are roundly condemned; yet when protesting vegans march with placards showing blown-up photos from abattoirs, they assume the moral high ground and will frequently not go quietly if the law steps in.

I totally agree with you on it coming down to personal values being respected, though, and that these shouldn't be enforced. Don't forget that, if a particular set of values were to be somehow enforced, who is to say that it would be those of vegans (the minority) that would be the democratically chosen ones? Nobody should be forced to eat meat but, equally, nobody should be banned from eating meat.

We built meat eaters know very well I watched quite few of Hugh FW 's programmes and it's very clear from those that quite a lot of people who eat meat deliberately ignore the fact. that it was a living animal. A slab of something pinkishin a plastic box doesn't look much like an animal does it?

I eat some carefully, wild (or organically ) produced salmon and I feel guilty but know it had a decent life before it's death.

I should say I HOPE it had a decent life. dh eats meat but it is organic, we watch it walking about in the fields round here.

I disagree about vegans educating. I don’t want someone hectoring me about what I eat, drink, wear, etc. I don’t tell them what is acceptable to eat, and they should do the same.