To hate the - why can people not manage without meat for a day?

[jennymanara]

I have a vegan friend who is a bit extreme about it, also have several vegan friends who are not. But this one friend pushes for everything to be meat free. Barbecues together, meals at someone's house, weekends away. Her favourite saying around this is that she can not understand how on earth people can't manage not to have one day, or one meal, or one weekend without meat. My answer is always that the occasion is supposed to be fun, and that means people eating what they want to eat. She always says it is pretty sad if people can not have fun without eating a dead animal.

I wouldn't go to a vegan BBQ in the same way I wouldn't go to a vegan carvery - both are meals based entirely around meat.

I'm not against vegan food at all and would happily go to a vegan restaurant etc but if everyone is chipping in then the food should suit all parties, not just one person pushing their agenda.

Your friend wants people to manage "for one meal/ one day" without meat- it sounds like she wants this "one meal/ one day" to happen every single time you meet up, in which case it's a hell of a lot more frequently than she's making out!

I wouldn't go to a vegan BBQ in the same way I wouldn't go to a vegan carvery - both are meals based entirely around meat.

Only if you make them so.

But plants communicate too. What makes their lives less important than animals? Is it their lack of mobility?

A couple of quick links
www.the-scientist.com/features/plant-talk-38209

qz.com/1294941/a-debate-over-plant-consciousness-is-forcing-us-to-confront-the-limitations-of-the-human-mind/

www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/your-fruits-and-vegetables-can-tell-day-from-nightand-even-get-jet-lag-1424660/

Nobody should impose their beliefs on anyone else. Whether its diet, politics, religion etc. It's so fucking boring.

3 members of my family have become vegan recently and they're nightmares. They think because I don't eat meat or dairy that I agree with their bullshit. I don't.

What beats me is that many Vegans expect me to have a meat-free option at a dinner party, but almost never do they offer me a meat option.

Why do people make this stupid point? If someone with an allergy to mushrooms is hosting a dinner party do you expect to be offered an alternative dish which included mushrooms? Just because you eat a certain ingredient (e.g. meat) does not mean you can expect it to be provided at every meal. That said the vegan would be unreasonable to expect you to only provide vegan food at your dinner party as long as you did a dish for them.

It's not a stupid point at all. Mushrooms are just one ingredient option. Meat and dairy are two entire food groups. Would you find it acceptable if somebody who was a big carbohydrate fan invited you to a meal consisting of huge plates of potatoes, rice, chips and bread and nothing else? After all, they've provided plenty of food, so why would anybody grumble at there being no vegetables, no pulses, no meat, no fruit, no dairy….?

I think a lot of people think that people eat meat deliberately to be difficult or to prove a point, when the ones who seem to be trying to prove a point are SOME vegans. We need food to survive and food comes from living organisms which we kill in order to eat - and usually, in the case of crops and fruit, we have to actively kill competitors for that food so as to preserve it for ourselves.

As for insisting on calling meat ‘dead flesh’ or ‘carcase’ etc, it just makes those vegans who do that incessantly sound rather silly. Yes, we know where meat comes from and we obviously have no problem with that – otherwise we wouldn't eat it. Should we routinely refer to apples as ‘tree babies’ or sheets of paper as ‘dead trees’?

It would be like a Muslim or Jew constantly screeching to a non-Muslim or non-Jew that the food we're about to eat is not halal or kosher. It's important to them for their food consumption, but others couldn't care less when it comes to their food.

Personally I think the whole 1st world eats an enormous amount of meat and particularly those who feel a meal's not a meal unless it's got meat in it. Why does every day have to contain meat?

Personally, I haven't flown anywhere for over 20 years and don't drink alcohol. I can't empathise with those who feel that a holiday in their own country is not a holiday or that a party or night out isn't proper unless it includes alcohol.

However, I understand that these are extremely widespread views and wouldn't dream of telling people that they mustn't travel abroad or drink beer or wine - or that they were wrong for feeling this way.

Were they to start lecturing me against choosing a UK caravanning holiday or drinking fizzy water - that's when THEIR intolerance and inability to respect MY decisions would make it a problem, entirely of their choosing.

some people like to eat meat and choose to eat meat - it's hardly rocket science.

Vegans don't get to control what other people eat, and omnivores have just as much right to choose their foods as vegans do.

So simple and so correct. Why do some people struggle with this?

People should be free to eat or not eat meat as they choose without any moral judgement from either side. It's as simple as that.

She's right. Eating meat daily is bad for the environment and unnecessary from a nutrition point of view.

Eating meat daily is bad for the environment and unnecessary from a nutrition point of view.

Yes, we get that (she says patiently). However, you (or she) do yours, and others will do theirs.

I promise not to be rude or bang on about vegans and veganism in a negative way, if they could ever so kindly return the favour, and refrain from being an interminable dietary bore at what is supposed to be a fun social event. . .

Can you start telling your friend about the negative consequences of veganism every time she's boring on? About the colonialism and exploitation involved in the supply chains of things like cashews, avocados, quinoa etc? And the food miles and other environmental impacts of a lot of the current processed vegan foods?

There are advantages and disadvantages, both ethically and in terms of health, to both meat-based and meat-free diets, but when vegans or vegetarians are ranting and talking emotive bullshit, it's fine to clobber them with equally emotive and exaggerated ranting in return.

I think your friends is on a hiding to nothing trying to dictate what you eat, but I do think she has point, one day isn’t gonna harm you and you never know you actually might find some vegan dishes are quite tasty.

I am not vegan, or even vegetarian, but I can very easily go for a day without meat and often do. I often prepare meat-free meals at home and frequently take the veggie option in restaurants. But this is not an ethical choice it is just because I like the food. I also like meat and dairy so I continue to eat that.

If this person tried the "why can't you go one day without meat" line on me I would very much take the hump and be tempted to order the meat option on purpose.

I really, really have no issue with people making their own dietary choices but don't try to impose them on me.

Oh, and some more science to fuck vegans off with: human diets evolved in different ways depending on local climates. In some areas, plants that are digestible, appealing and nutritious to humans grow abundantly most of the year round, so a plant-based diet makes sense. In other areas, the abundant plants are not suitable for humans to eat but are digestible, appealing and nutritious to the type of animal that is itself good to eat, so it makes sense to raise and eat more animals than plants in those places.

If you think about it, shoud we actually crash out of the EU with no deal, it's going to be tougher on the meat-dodgers in the long term as the British climate isn't great for enough nutritious plants to provide a healthy diet all year round...

@ReanimatedSGB

What are your qualifications please? Would you mind sharing your sources?
Is there a reason you want to fuck vegans of? You don't sound like a pleasant person. I can understand you wanting to fuck off biggots, abusers etc. But why be so keen to fuck off a group of people who are trying to live their lives without causing harm?

Standard minority wanting the majority to dance to their tune.

The thing meat eaters on this thread don't seem to understand is that when they sit there and stuff a dead animal into their mouth when they could easily eat something else, vegans can empathize with the animal that's being eaten and find it upsetting that people they like have such little empathy and understanding for other species. Not to mention the smell of meat cooking is particularly vile.

Also a meat eaters 'right' to eat meat comes at the expense of an animals right to live. Which many people find uncomfortable. Including those in this thread who find calling meat 'dead animals' inflammatory when really it's just fact. Just because something is culturally normal doesn't make it right.

Not to mention the smell of meat cooking is particularly vile

Have to disagree, bacon frying turns everyone into a bisto kid in this house.

those in this thread who find calling meat 'dead animals' inflammatory when really it's just fact.

It is fact AND ALSO, used in this context, clearly inflammatory. To say otherwise is just disingenuous.

Why is it inflammatory? Surely it's only inflammatory if you don't want to equate what you're putting in to your mouth with the animal it came from? If that's the case, why not?

The thing meat eaters on this thread don't seem to understand is that when they sit there and stuff a dead animal into their mouth when they could easily eat something else, vegans can empathize with the animal that's being eaten and find it upsetting that people they like have such little empathy and understanding for other species. Not to mention the smell of meat cooking is particularly vile.

Then don't come to a bloody bbq where there's going to be meat served! Go empathise elsewhere!

Also a meat eaters 'right' to eat meat comes at the expense of an animals right to live. Which many people find uncomfortable. Including those in this thread who find calling meat 'dead animals' inflammatory when really it's just fact. Just because something is culturally normal doesn't make it right.

Yes, meat eaters are aware of that, that comes under the heading 'no shit sherlock'. Don't have a problem with it. Don't want to hear that you have a problem with it. Again, go emote to someone who cares.

I'll pass you the salad, and won't ask you to pass me the steak. mmm. . . steak. . . .

I think the only times I've seen a hog or lamb roast were at parties in the home counties!

I've had been to a spit-roast of a lamb in Islington. (Actually it was more sheep-size.) The spit-roast kit was hired, so it must be a thing in London.

But the lamb/sheep wasn't killed in the back garden. (I think the "home counties" remark was in response to the implication that the animal was both killed and cooked on-site.)

I recall seeing on TV a large barbecue, in a field in South Africa, where several whole cows were being turned on spits.

They like their red meat there.

why can people not manage without meat for a day?

Anyway, to answer the question, for the same they can't go a day without using their left leg, or praying to the ancient Egyptian sun-god Ra. They see no reason why they'd want to.

Surely it's only inflammatory if you don't want to equate what you're putting in to your mouth with the animal it came from? If that's the case, why not?

I know where it came from. Hell I know better than most since I've seen pigs and chickens killed for food since I was a toddler. I've seen the full cycle of eggs(I used to gather them), chicks(used to care for them) and fully grown chicken ,head cut and ready to pluck for a meal. Same with pigs. I still eat them .

Don't be so bloody patronising. Just because I want to eat meat doesn't mean I somehow think it grew in the chicken tree,ready washed and packaged to be taken to the supermarket, or that we're somehow oblivious they're dead.

@yoursarcasmisdripping

And yet you haven't explained why it is inflammatory? I'm not being patronising, help me to understand why it's inflammatory please.