To hate the - why can people not manage without meat for a day?

[jennymanara]

I have a vegan friend who is a bit extreme about it, also have several vegan friends who are not. But this one friend pushes for everything to be meat free. Barbecues together, meals at someone's house, weekends away. Her favourite saying around this is that she can not understand how on earth people can't manage not to have one day, or one meal, or one weekend without meat. My answer is always that the occasion is supposed to be fun, and that means people eating what they want to eat. She always says it is pretty sad if people can not have fun without eating a dead animal.

*@YourSarcasmIsDripping *

LOL, I think I went on three educational school trips to the freezing works by the age of 8. It was the primary school 'go to' I think they figured a fair few of us would end up working there.

Us kids used to play around my uncles as they did the homekill.

I'm another that 'do you know where that comes from/how it is done' really doesn't work on.

I'd live happily without meat for the rest of my life, but I'll defend my right to dairy to bitter end. Given I my glucose tolerance is rubbish, I practically live on it.

those in this thread who find calling meat 'dead animals' inflammatory when really it's just fact.

It’s the hilarity of people feeling they need to put ‘dead’ in as a qualifier, as if someone eating a live animal would be totally fine and normal. And then pretending they didn’t add it to be emotive, rather than factual.

Almost as if I asked how you felt about eating rotting leaves, rather than ‘leaves’ or perhaps ‘salad’.

I don't find it inflammatory as such, really just over-emotive bullshit that is really rather boring to listen to.

But as animals are sentient beings, it's a bit odd not to feel emotional about the practices involved in the production of meat.

Oh, and I don't mean bullshit as in non-factual. Of course it's factual. Just somewhat redundant. I bet you'd get a lot more upset if I was gnawing on the haunch of a live beast.

But as animals are sentient beings, it's a bit odd not to feel emotional about the practices involved in the production of meat.

No. Not really. Quite a few people don't.

But as animals are sentient beings, it's a bit odd not to feel emotional about the practices involved in the production of meat.

Sure, fine to be emotional about it. But then it’s a choice to use emotive language - also fine, if a bit predictable and not always helpful to winning people to your way of thinking (a bit like calling Leave voters thick doesn’t exactly win them over to the Remain cause).

Pretending you’re not doing it for emotive, rather than factual, reasons, does lead me to facetiously ask if you’d therefore be cool with some eating a live animal.

@mbosnz intensively farmed animals tend to have a good knaw at each other due to the conditions they live in. You knawing would be no more upsetting than that.

Give it up slookiroo, really not bothered with your rhetoric. Couldn't give a rats arse. Chops are marinading as we speak. . .

I do however know the conditions these dear wee lambs were reared in, so I'm fairly happy with that.

@jassyradlett

Note I'm explaining why others have used the term dead animal, and trying to get an answer as to why some say that is inflammatory. As yet, no answer but plenty trying to pick apart what I'm saying. Interesting.

I'm neither robot nor sociopath so therefore my language often does reflect my emotions. Beautiful isn't it 😁

Also note I haven't called anybody anything and usually take care not to use pointless insults when debating.

To be honest if you were to eat a live animal it would involve more effort, and the process would not be worse than what many of them are subjected to anyway. I say that factually and without any emotive language 😉

@mbosnz and you're entitled to have your say, but tell me to give it up because? I'm just entitled to express myself on this forum as you are. Sorry you were unable to come up with an intelligent response.

Dead flesh
Dead animals
Carcass
Corpse

Definitely factual but you can't claim it's not inflammatory. Why? Because these are used on purpose to gross people out and "wake" them to the "reality" of their food. It's always used in a patronising, sneering and almost pitying way.

I don't refer to vegan food as "decaying weeds" or "rabbit food" or "artificial tasteless fungus soup"(for substitutes) or "dirty sock tasting leaves". I kinda expect the same courtesy back. Silly me.

@mbosnz and you're entitled to have your say, but tell me to give it up because? I'm just entitled to express myself on this forum as you are. Sorry you were unable to come up with an intelligent response.

Just didn't want you wasting your time, energy and breath flogging a dead horse, there slookiroo. So to speak. I thought it might offend your sensibilities. . .

Never said you weren't entitled to your opinion - just that attempting to influence mine with it is an entirely fruitless exercise. . .

@YourSarcasmIsDripping

That's how it makes you feel, they are your emotions. I'm not grossed out by dead animals, I don't understand why anybody who eats them would be. Thank you for your answer to that question though.

Anybody with a healthy diet eats plenty of decaying weed/rabbit food etc anyway.

I'm asking questions having read points raised on the thread and am interested in the answers. I'm not trying to influence or antagonise anybody.

Note I'm explaining why others have used the term dead animal, and trying to get an answer as to why some say that is inflammatory. As yet, no answer but plenty trying to pick apart what I'm saying. Interesting.

But I have explained. People are using intentionally emotive (rather than emotional) language, which is a choice. They are trying to elicit an emotion in their audience - and given the choice of language, the emotion is a negative one (disapproval, disgust) and encouraging that reaction to people who do that thing. Which is a wee bit inflammatory.

I'm neither robot nor sociopath so therefore my language often does reflect my emotions. Beautiful isn't it 😁

It’s possible to have those emotions and still use a filter when speaking and writing. It’s a sign of caring about others and your impact on them, and part of not being a sociopath or a robot. Beautiful, don’t you think?

Also note I haven't called anybody anything and usually take care not to use pointless insults when debating.

I don’t think I accused you of doing so.

To be honest if you were to eat a live animal it would involve more effort, and the process would not be worse than what many of them are subjected to anyway. I say that factually and without any emotive language

Taking some animal farming practices and applying it to all meat eaters, even those who eat little and carefully when they do (and as a very informed cattle farmer’s daughter,I am in that category), purely for rhetorical effect, is where you again depart from ‘factual’ and towards ‘emotive and inflammatory’.

Hope that’s been helpful in explaining.

@mbosnz

Don't you mean "feeding a fed horse"?

Don't you mean "feeding a fed horse"?

LOL, I so really, very didn't. . . even more pointless, why feed a horse that's already been fed? Downright wasteful, poor beast'll founder. . .

@slookiroo I'm not grossed out either. But that is the intent behind it,which is what makes it inflammatory. Especially coupled in real life with shuddering, gag sounds , pukey face etc.

As with most things words in themselves are and can be harmless ,even factual as you say, intent however can easily change things. And a lot of us have already been there,heard that .

Oh, and on the ‘it’s no better to eat a dead than a live animal’ meme - that’s not the question. Using ‘dead animal’ as a qualifier is only necessary if it would be acceptable to eat a live animal. If it’s the fact of it being dead that makes eating it unacceptable.

Otherwise the only purpose of ‘dead’ is for the emotional kick you get from it. Which, as I said, fine, if that’s your goal. It’s just when it’s justified as purely factual that I am amused.

@slookiroo I didn't make myself clear in that point. I'm fine with vegans choosing their own food as long as they don't make pests of themselves: ones who behave like OP's friend are fair game for as much fucking up as possible. Bonus points if you can make them cry or puke.

@jassyradlett

If you genuinely take care with the animal products that you eat then I respect that. I know lots of people who say that but they order meat when eating out without knowing where it came from, and I'm sure in other circumstances. I don't ever say anything though, unless participating in a conversation such as this, where it is on topic. I do not believe that was a departure from factual at all, I'm sure you are aware that the vast majority of meat produced is from intensive farming. That would not be the case if enough people made better choices as the demand wouldn't be there.

I think that when participating in a conversation about veganism in real life, I'm very careful of other people's feelings. However I am honest and upfront and will back all of my assertions up with evidence if requested. As you've already said that you are careful about the meat you do eat, I'm sure you'll agree that these can be important conversations because the current state of affairs is not sustainable.

Bonus points if you can make them cry or puke.

After all, they'd be besides themselves with joy if they had that effect on their omnivorous friends, wouldn't they?

You know- I know loads of vegans. I don’t know a single one like the Daily Mail stereotypes one the bizarre number of vegan bashing threads that are infesting Mumsnet at the moment.

@reanimatedsgb

I avoid meals that I feel I'll struggle with, but often eat my food alongside people eating meat. Some types of cooking cause the smell to overwhelm me so I'd choose not to be there.

It's interesting that you find it fun to try and make people that you find inflammatory wretch or cry, yet you criticise others for using language that you don't like.