To hate the - why can people not manage without meat for a day?

[jennymanara]

I have a vegan friend who is a bit extreme about it, also have several vegan friends who are not. But this one friend pushes for everything to be meat free. Barbecues together, meals at someone's house, weekends away. Her favourite saying around this is that she can not understand how on earth people can't manage not to have one day, or one meal, or one weekend without meat. My answer is always that the occasion is supposed to be fun, and that means people eating what they want to eat. She always says it is pretty sad if people can not have fun without eating a dead animal.

No worse fate for a vegan than to end up with egg on their face

I do think it is occasionally nice to throw a veggie or vegan friend the gesture of letting them pick the food. In restaurants for example, I quite often pick a vegan place if I'm with a vegan friend, just so they will have a decent choice rather than forced to have the single vegan option.

I wouldn't do it if they were going to demand it though, and certainly not for a bloody bbq, which basically exists for meat eating. It should go both ways - sometimes you go vegan, the rest of them she can be around meat and deal with it.

This would do my head in. I can manage without meat but I want to eat what I like and that frequently includes meat.

I have a work colleague who I travel with a bit, he's vegetarian and likes making the dead animal comments. I find it makes me more inclined to order meat to wind him up. Last week I had a delicious beef carpaccio !

haven't quit read the full thread, have we joystir59

I have been to many parties where a lamb or even a sheep was killed and roasted whole.

I’m guessing you don’t live in the Home Counties?

If a vegan or vegetarian is a guest at someones else house, then I am sure the host will ensure that they will have an appropriate meal. Generally a host will make sure that everyone has a meal that they can both eat and enjoy. Why do (some) vegans therefore insist that all their fellow guests follow their food choices, rather than accommodate differences. I think it is extremely rude not to offer alternatives, to anyone, of any eating persuasion.

There's lots of veggie and vegan food I love, I have an excellent slow cooker recipe for a vegan chickpea curry and one of my favourite restaurants has a menu that is 90%veggie with my favourite dishes coming from that part.

But someone starts banging on about me "chewing dead flesh" or "not being able to manage without dead animal" then I'm ordering offal, black pudding, rare steak or whatever else is the most meaty dish on the menu !!

Why not eat a horse though? Cows, beef cattle, lambs and pigs etc. are just as intelligent as horses

A. Horse meat doesn't taste great, and
B. Horses are very useful to humans as beasts of labour, and for pleasure/sport, so it makes sense to exploit them that way, rather than for food, especially as they are relatively high maintenance. Cows, pigs and sheep... not so much.

HTH

I'd eat horse. I'd eat most meats actually and have. My problem with the Korean dog meat trade is the cruelty, these aren't animals being humanely killed they're animals being put into vats of hot oil while still alive.

I'm not vegan. Not even vegetarian.

But I'm with your friend. Personally I think the whole 1st world eats an enormous amount of meat and particularly those who feel a meal's not a meal unless it's got meat in it. Why does every day have to contain meat? I like a steak or a BBQ occasionally as much as a lot of people. Also like a roast dinner. But I have meat probably 2 days out of 7. On the other days, it's baked potatoes, bean curries, salads, vegetable stir-fries etc. I think many people are in an absolute rut of meat-eating without thinking. Of course they can eat what they want, but sometimes I think they are eating meat mindlessly.

Then there's the environmental impact of the amount of time it takes to raise livestock. Then there's the cheap meat brigade who "can't afford" salad or fruit (apparently) but happy to get cheap lamb chops or cheap battery farmed chicken breast or cheap kebabs or burgers or sausages or hotdogs (all bleugh). I prefer to eat less meat and make it good quality on the times that I do.

We had veggie (borderline vegan) friends when I was younger, and we were considerate - ie there was a separate BBQ, we didn't mix tongs etc, and we made sure there were plenty of things to eat for everyone. That's polite. If it was someone's birthday and they were vegetarian, then probably the whole meal would be vegetarian rather than relegating them to a sad nut roast for one. That's polite.

I'm not veggie myself, but can happily go days without touching meat - but, for special occasions, I'm likely to treat myself and everyone - and that generally means meat.

I think it is extremely rude not to offer alternatives, to anyone, of any eating persuasion

Do you know anyone whose 'eating persuasion' is that every meal must contain meat? The earlier poster who asked if you'd demand that a host with a mushroom allergy served you an alternative, mushroom-containing dish, had it spot on. It's such a silly argument. Non-vegans, as a rule, are generally omnivores, not carnivores.

Sarah two wrongs don't make a right so no need to keep quiet about it in the right environment, in the right way. Cashew nuts etc (or any items unsustainably or farmed in a way bad for the environment) is no better than OTT meat eating. We can all learn, we can all change.

I have been to many parties where a lamb or even a sheep was killed and roasted whole.

I’m guessing you don’t live in the Home Counties? grin

I dunno - I think the only times I've seen a hog or lamb roast were at parties in the home counties!

Why not eat a horse though? Cows, beef cattles, lambs and pigs etc. are just as intelligent as horses.

I'm not vegan but I do find some people's opinions about eating animals a bit strange

It's weird and most of these people would have a breakdown over cruelty to dogs for example yet happily mock veggies or vegans who don't like cruelty to all animals (please don't tell me the meat industry isn't cruel)

I'd laugh in her face then noisily chomp down on a rareleg of lamb laughing manically while the juices ran down my chin.

You sound psychotic to be honest.

People do realise that the production of animal products involves far more plant and water consumption than is required for humans eating a plant based diet? Don't try to make out the some vegans have a more detrimental impact on the planet, they'd have to try really bloody hard.

Is boiling dogs in a vat of oil worse than boiling chickens alive or pigs burning from the inside out in gas chambers? How about when the captive bolt gun doesn't do its job (around 30% of the time according to a recent report)?

veggies or vegans who don't like cruelty to all animals

Hmmm. That holds for vegans, more or less - although most would draw the line at, say, parasites on their children's scalps or in their bottoms, just doing their natural thing. Veggies who eat cheese, though (even organic).... not too arsed about cruelty to cows, surely?

Why are you pandering to it though OP? Just order what you want.

If she comes out with her favourite saying tell her it's irritating that one person pushes for their own way every single time and to stfu about it.

she can not understand how on earth people can't manage not to have one day, or one meal, or one weekend without meat

This is the same stupid point that the killjoys who want to stop other people eating food in cinemas use.

The answer is simple.

I can go without meat.

But I don't want to.

And until it becomes illegal, it's my business.

Do you know anyone whose 'eating persuasion' is that every meal must contain meat?

Yes, DH. I just asked him. Not necessarily red meat, but certainly something to accompany his veggies, like chicken, or fish, or egg.

Also, I am sorry, but I just don't like most Vegan acceptable meals. I can't eat anything bean, or pulse, or soy, or curry, or too much carb. It doesn't agree with me. Sorry, that is just the way it is. I like a simple meal of meat/fish with vegetables or salad.

Hmmm. That holds for vegans, more or less - although most would draw the line at, say, parasites on their children's scalps or in their bottoms, just doing their natural thing. Veggies who eat cheese, though (even organic).... not too arsed about cruelty to cows, surely?

Oh you're one of those "gotcha" idiots, we're doing more than meat eaters though.

No idea what your stupid comment about kids arses is about either but I'm sure it makes sense in your tiny mind. Good for you

I am right
I will fight for the right to be right
I will KILL in the fight for the right to be right

Isn't that a Bowie song?

The trouble about these views, is that they are trying to control their neurosis (fear of death, eliminating uncertainty) by controlling others in order to remove the trigger. It shows terrible boundaries and worse than that, is intolerant and authoritarian.

But the problem with life is that life is about change and death. It is no use fighting it. Death happens to everyone and everything. From the largest blue whale to the smallest ant, we all are going to die. You cannot avoid it.

There are biological reasons why humans are omnivores. We have huge brains that require a lot of long chain fatty acids, and we have short guts. Long chain fatty acids cannot be manufactured in the human gut. Only ruminants and hind gut fermenters can.

This is why we eat them. Because animals with those guts are capable of breaking down the cellulose of grass into protein, and storing long chain fatty acids in their fat (and egg yolks, and milk).

A vet gave me this clue about why sheep die so easily, but if you look at any wildlife documentary, you see that prey animals after they have been caught, succumb quite quickly. They go into shock very easily, and this I think is a mechanism built in, to make the suffering less because of their position on the food chain.

The largest organ and the largest developing organ of the human baby is the brain - up to 30% of the the whole body. That brain requires FAT in order to grow. It is extremely important to feed babies full fat yogurt, cream, milk, cheese, animal fat for healthy development. In Italy it is deemed child abuse and is against the law to feed a baby a vegan diet, Australia also prosecuted vegan parents and I hope that becomes law here.

There was a great post a while back which was by a vegan who announced she had taken the day off, and eaten every single craving under the sun, from steak to cheese.

The Millie Tants went bezerk of course, but them aside, it was a wonderful and humerous thread in which vegans and vegetarians admitted their cravings. People, you crave those things FOR A REASON. You body is really trying to tell you something!

So my position is, if you want to be neurotic? Feel free, its none of my business. But don't try and impose your distorted thinking on me. I know biologically why I eat meat products, and try to source it ethically.