you see THIS was a chav

[Twiglett]

on Sunday went to a local country fair

was watching a bloke with no shirt, tattoos and baseball cap and bad teeth play with his 8 year old and 12 year old

they were chucking hay from the hay bales over each other

saw another bloke point to his little girl, of about 18 months, and say something (couldn't hear what but assume asking him to be careful)

Chav proceeded to f' and blind and scream at the father for about 5 minutes, gesticulating wildly whilst his children looked on with gleeful laughter

father and toddler with mother and slightly older child just got up and left

chav, disgusting foul bloke, ruining it for everyone

we left

I am not judging her (much ) but as a working class person with aspirations above her station I am aware that chav is a phrase used to mock people like me and therefore hate it.

sorry that just sounds like a yob who's teaching his child badly.

"Jordan and Peter Andre to name but two. They're not working class. Working class people work."

i didn't realise jordan and peter andre lived off charity and social welfare.
learn something new everyday.

I think if the physical description "no shirt, tattoos and baseball cap and bad teeth" had not been included there may have been a different response.

It wasn't necessary imo.

I would hardly call JOrdan and Peter Andre scumbags

there you go outing my chavviness again

"Chav is a way of keeping the working classes down and mocking them for wanting better or different from what what the middle classes see as being appropriate"

not burburry IMO was the important sentance in TSAPs post

I happen to think that Jordan is working class depite her money - as I personally dont think money is the definer.

and you can BOLDEN your semantic argument all you want. The definition rather proves my point

the words are synonymous with class and by perpetuating this insult, people use it as a term for the working class.

it is biased and wrong.

becuase in every day conversation - NOT on mumsnet, when perpetuating this vernacular you perpetuate bias and encourage others to do so.

bad behaviour, rudeness and being crass are not the terms only used for working class people.

that was the main part of my point,I used burberyr as an illustration to make that point.

Well before I came on MN I would have said he was pikey and got slated to for that..

Then changed to saying he was common, and that still would have p*ssed half of you off..

So now I would say that he was NASD

Not our Sort Dear......

I think "class" means different things to different people though. I have an aunt in her 80s who worked as a school cleaner for her entire working life, brought up 6 children in a 2 bed house etc. She has more "class" in the sense of personal dignity/character/moral conscience than most of us put together IMO.

I personally can't consider Jordan "working class" because she wouldn't know work if it jumped out of her vodka smoothie and she sees nothing wrong in behaving like an alley cat and selling herself/her children's misfortunes for hard cash.

To me "chav" in this context (although it's not a word I would use anyway) isn't about money or social class, it's about values and behaviour, things that transcend notions of class and wealth.

nOsd (typo sorry)..... so loses it humour when you have to redo...

Hi Twiglett-I put you in the controversial catagory yesterday on my favourite mumsnetters thread and just came across this thread.

By the way I started a light hearted thread called "day in the life of a chav" and it did'nt go down to well.

bollocks its a word for an attitude

some people have co-opted it to mean 'oh you're talking about the working class'

so who is at fault there? those who co-opt a word to mean working class .. or those who see no class issue

as for the physical description. .. its called painting a picture of the scene .. they are descriptive words so you can picture it easily

according to wikipedia

"Behaviour, fashion, and attributes

Elements/symptoms of the stereotypical chav are someone who:
Wears particular clothing, such as:
Brand-name athletic clothing and shoes. Stereotypically, this might include but is not limited to white trainers and tracksuits.[3]
Designer clothing and accessories (usually counterfeit), in particular the distinctive tartan of Burberry.[12]
Fake gold jewellery?in particular conspicuous earrings and trinkets on chains for women, and gold sovereign rings and large gold (or fake gold) chains for men.[citation needed]
Sports caps or Burberry caps and hoodies (for males). Often both are worn at once.[3]
Sports or jogging trousers, especially white. Tucked in at the bottom into large football socks. Liverpool chavs often wear all black counterfeit designer tracksuits with 'Lowe Alpine' ski caps and Nike Air Max 95 trainers.[3]
If female, often wears thickly applied make-up, large hoop or dangle earrings, makes heavy use of fake tan, and has a hairstyle in which the hair is pulled back into a tight ponytail (called a "Croydon facelift"[13] "council-house facelift" or "Scrapeback").
Owns a "tacky" or "cheap" modified car, usually with a basic original specification, but decorated in a gaudy style, such as a souped-up Vauxhall Nova.[14]
Aspires to the latest mobile phone and other mobile gadgetry.[15] The stereotype may not be above buying fenced phones or obtaining the phones themselves via mugging or theft.
Lives on council estates and other low-income neighbourhoods, often supported by the "dole"[14] (unemployment benefit / Income Support).
Often takes part in underage drinking, underage sex (and consequently is associated with teenage pregnancy), smoking and sometimes drug abuse.[14]
Congregates and loiters in areas such as bus stops, shopping centres, supermarkets, under bridges,[16] corner-shops and fast food restaurants.[17]
Is associated with crass, loud, in-your-face drunken behaviour and petty crime activities. This includes unprovoked attacks on members of the public (see happy slapping), vandalism, verbal abuse, and drug abuse (see ASBO). Often these crimes are committed purely for the fun of it and not material gain.[18]
Classically (particularly in the schoolyard culture) have a vehement dislike of 'goths' and 'emos', as well as any other "alternative" non-chav subcultures, often grouped with the aforementioned cultures.[19]
Predominately enjoys music such as rap or R&B, and will play it at very loud volumes, such as when driving around in a car."

its not controversial flybaby .. its getting the blood going

best sort of thread

god, at least it's a bit of something

nice change from all this endless Madeleine/Princess Tiiiaaaaaamiiii/Facebook drivel

I don't like the word or usage of it, s'pose I am working class, I just don't like that judgemental view.... of anyone...

that said that person to whom you referred sounded like a right horrible git Twig

Interesting definition of chav though, I always thought it was a combination of things - if I saw someone behaving in an antisocial way (like this chap) I wouldn't think they were a) a chav or b) working class. Just as when I see people wearing Burberry I don't automatically think 'Chav' - but when the two descriptions are reflected in one person then I'm afraid I would think "chav".

IYSWIM - am I making sense?

at the time I didn't think he was anything other than someone I wanted to get my family very far away from

Anyway, according to Blair, we should all be living in a 'classless society' by now...

LOL not much chance of that auntyspan, what would become of all the working-class heroes droning importantly into their pints of Banks' Mild?

very funny chat on R4 at the moment about keeping up appearances on R4 and the tendency of our parents to want to be middle class while their offspring are claiming back our working class heritage.

I was told once by a colleague I couldnt be working class because I didn't own my own house....

Twiglett-Your right ,all though think I may have gone too far with my thread.

your own quote equated it with class. lets not pretend it isn't