... to not tell my militantly vegan friend she ate fish sauce?

[Snuffalo]

I am a relaxed vegan, as are one of my kids, the other kid and my partner are mostly vegetarian. Basically what that means for me is that I would never spend my own money on animal products, and I wouldn't use them in my own cooking, but if someone else prepares food for me or I'm a guest in someone's home I'll eat what's put in front of me, for the most part - I won't have a sausage or a burger at your barbecue, but I'll eat the pasta salad even if has cheese in it, and I'll have some of your birthday cake even if it's made with eggs.

Anyway, my friend Alice- who is a militant, rather than a relaxed, vegan

• was over and I heated up what I confidently thought to be vegan sweet potato and black bean chilli that my partner had made earlier in the week. I know the recipe backwards and forwards because one of us makes it at least once a month with zero animal products so I had no reason to suspect otherwise. I must say it was especially delicious this time - because, as it turns out, my partner added some fish sauce because he'd read somewhere that it's good in chilli. I didn't find out until today and now I'm wondering if I should tell Alice? I can't decide if, in her shoes, I would want to know or not. Would you?

LimeKiwi that's very true.

I used to own a restaurant, we had so many vegans/vegetarians/ ceoliacs that turned out to be not be those things.

Ceoliacs eating out of the bread basket, instead of the gluten free bread provided. Vegans trying their friends eggs Benedict, vegetarians trying their girlfriends chicken etc.

And it does confuse the issue. I can see why people think vegetarians eat fish or chicken or that an egg womt really bother a vegan etc.

Your husbands sarcastic answer says it all really. Neither you nor he understand that mumsnet havent declared you as a mon vegetarian. The definition of the word has.

Exactly that.

It's not 'exclusionary' for people to say you're not a vegan or vegetarian. It's your own actions that make you neither, no matter how much you protest.

Do you want a medal for your super-special efforts to eat a relatively plant-based diet? Would that make you feel important enough?

The best way to tell your friend the bad news is to send her a link to this thread, and say no more.

She'll be furious when she finds out what she has eaten, but she might be mollified by the telling off you've had for the phrase "relaxed vegetarian".

“Telling off”

That’s exactly it, how funny that people on this thread think they have the right to tell other people off and, more importantly, that they think it’s made any difference 😂

I can't understand how fish sauce can be vegetarian when fish isn't? It's like saying roast chicken isn't vegetarian, but chicken soup is.

I can't understand how fish sauce can be vegetarian when fish isn't?

Yeah, but some pretend vegetarians think fish is, so I can see why they get confused easily
I mean the OP's husband thought it was OK to put in the vegan sauce because Buddhist Monks say fish sauce is vegetarian

Ceoliacs eating out of the bread basket

Very unlikely a true coeliac would do this as it would make them pretty unwell.
Coeliac disease is an actual illness and they have no choice in the matter sadly.

Religious definitions of different meat categories can be quite odd. At one point some Christian churches were defining any aquatic animals as fish and saying they were therefore OK to eat during Lent or on Fridays. This meant things like beavers and capybaras being classified as fish so that they could be eaten on fish-only days.

So it wouldn't surprise me if other religions or philosophies made exceptions for fish in a kind of "it's all fruits of the sea and doesn't count as animal" way.

LaMars. Absolutely, I’m coeliac and obviously we would never do that. However, I also don’t care if someone says they’re coeliac when perhaps they have a sensitivity to gluten or if they just prefer not to eat it because sometimes it’s easier than explaining the difference etc. It’s never meant that someone has forced bread on me just because someone else ate it.

As a coeliac I take full responsibility for what I put in my body (I have to otherwise it makes me really unwell) so I make sure that I know exactly what is in something before I eat it, speak to kitchen staff, ring ahead if need be and tend to stick to coeliac certified places to be sure. I don’t get friends/colleagues etc to cater for me as I’m not prepared to take the risk.

I also don’t expect people to know the ins and outs of what I can or can’t eat because I know the world doesn’t revolve around me and most people aren’t very interested in what I eat, rightly so.

Something a few of the vegans on this thread could take on board.

@LaMarschallin you clearly didnt read the rest of my post.

The point was people claiming to have certain dietary requirements, but actually dont makes it harder for those that do.

Some 'ceoliacs' dont have it at all that was the point. If someone claims to be a coeliac and eats out of the normal bread basket, it's safe to say they are not ceoliac at all.

It did happen and it does happen. People claiming they are coeliac when actually they just try to avoid gluten.

Like the OP claiming to be vegan but not at all. That's what the posts was about.

As a vegan, I'd prefer not to be told but if someone trusts you to prepare a meal then please do take note of any dietary requirements. You risk making someone ill (I realise OP did this unintentionally, I wouldn't judge you for that).

It's funny how so many posters on mumsnet seem to have a huge problem with vegans, you are coming across as very judgemental and in cases very ignorant. Perhaps do a little research before pushing your opinions on to others and putting a group of people down using incorrect information. Thank you

Some 'ceoliacs' dont have it at all that was the point. If someone claims to be a coeliac and eats out of the normal bread basket, it's safe to say they are not ceoliac at all.
Fair enough.
I didn't realise you meant "coeliacs" as opposed to coeliacs, if you see what I mean.
I can understand that must be jolly annoying if you're in the restaurant business.

Slookiroo. You clearly can’t have RTFT if you think the people on here trying to push their opinions onto others are the non vegans!!! 😂

It’s never meant that someone has forced bread on me just because someone else ate it.

It's not about forcing bread on someone though. When people claim the are ceoliac and they arent it causes confusion.

So in ops case her friend Betty may say they are ceoliac but has eaten ops homemade onion rings. OP then makes them for her friend Sue who actually is ceoliac and tells her they are definitely gluten free as Betty has them.

Or a waitress who comes across alot of customers eating a certain food, that also claim to be ceoliac eat. So tells a customer that lots of ceoliacs pick that and they love it. And then they eat and get I'll.

It's not about being forced about wating something you or the person serving it are unaware that you shouldnt have.

Or the restaurant gets that many fakers in, one one occasion they dont prepare the dish in a clean are, betting this person probably isnt ceoliac. Except this time the person is and the food gets cross contaminated.

MY exh was the chef and always assumed everyone was telling the truth, but it was a pain in the arse when it turned out when the person was dipping into the bread basket.

It's not right, but in the real world that's what happens.

I can understand that must be jolly annoying if you're in the restaurant business.

Yep especially if you are cautious about avoiding cross contamination and doing it correctly. It is frustrating.

Protein. It’s not confusing at all. Trust me, I’m a coeliac.

As I said, I take full responsibility for what I eat and that includes making sure I know everything that it’s a dish and how it’s been prepared before I eat it. I have too otherwise it would make me really ill.

Vegans are grown ups too and can quite easily do the same if they’re actually that bothered.

I don’t let people prepare food for me for that reason. Just like my niece doesn’t because she has a severe allergy yet we manage. Not sure why vegans are so different and think it’s everyone else’s responsibility to be educated about their ‘special diet’.

Dorsetdays but lots of ceoliacs dont do that.

And personally if they eat out, I dont see why they should have to interrogate the staff. They should be able to simply advise they are coeliac. When the solution would be simple. Stop saying you are ceoliac if you arent. Not you personally, you in general.

Same with vegans. Ask if its vegan. Not have to the get the whole ingredient list, check about cross contamination etc.

Again words have meanings. Ceoliac isnt gluten sensitive or avoiding gluten. As you know. But people love to pretend they are part of a special group. Its bloody odd.

@Dorsetdays I'd say you're one of the main offenders.

Going out for a meal... If people want me to join them there need to be vegan options (happy not to go if not). If people offer to feed me then of course I have to let them know what I don't/can't eat. I always offer to cook though.

And you must have a poor set of friends and family if you can't trust any of them to feed you or be open to learning about your special diet (I come from a family of severe allergies so I know exactly what it can be like).

Lol, now I’m an ‘offender’ apparently 😂

It’s about being a grown up and taking responsibility if you have an allergy, a sensitivity or if you simply make a conscious decision not to eat something whether that’s gluten or meat.

I have to take responsibility. Otherwise I risk my health and that’s something I don’t think should be someone else’s responsibility.

I don’t care if someone says it’s gluten free, it’s still my responsibility to make sure it is if I want to eat it and stay well.

If you want to rely on others to make those decisions for you that’s your prerogative, just don’t moan if someone gets it wrong.

I don’t let people prepare food for me for that reason.

Wouldn't life be easier if you could trust other people to know what "coeliac" means? Meals out and shared food is one of life's great pleasures. I'm not expecting people to like my choice of food (and for me it is a choice) but I expect them to respect it and not make vegetable soup with chicken stock. It's just basic consideration for another person.

So I would be even more careful if someone were allergic. I appreciate that if someone is life-threateningly ill from cross contamination with peanuts they probably won't want to take a risk. But otherwise I would hope that anyone with coeliac disease or allergies would feel able to eat out because if they say "I am allergic to dairy/ gluten/ nuts" the person providing the food takes this on board. It's not about me expecting other people to bend to my dietary requirements - it's what I would do for them too.

Having agreed definitions of things enhances trust, one would hope.

So it wouldn't surprise me if other religions or philosophies made exceptions for fish

I enjoyed your post Belenus. Personally, I think that almost any 'real' fish would taste better than beaver.

I tried to make the point yesterday that definitions of vegetarian/vegan in the west are based upon concepts that are culturally specific. I find that many Hindus will describe themselves as vegetarian as shorthand for saying they follow dietary rules. For instance, lots of Hindus won't eat eggs. Others eat meat but avoid beef so find it simpler to eat vegetarian food outside the home to avoid 'hidden' forms of beef, like stock. I used to work with a Muslim who always ordered vegetarian food because the meat wasn't halal.

You aren't a vegan and I bet you think it's funny that your 'militantly vegan'🙄 friend unknowingly ate fish sauce. That's why you want to tell her - to make her feel bad. Great laugh for you.

Deedee. Keep up, the OP didn’t tell her friend. And in the first place was simply asking for advice as to whether others in the same situation would want to know.

She used the term militant vegan because that’s how the friend describes herself.

But, you know, don’t let the facts get in your way...

She used the term militant vegan because that’s how the friend describes herself

She probably feels like she has to describe herself that way to be fair though, because if she didn't OP would think eggs and milk are OK, not to mention DP slipping fish in the vegan sauce as well because it's OK for vegetarians
I'd be like "I'm a militant vegan" to err on the side of caution seeing as the OP clearly hasn't a feckin clue what one is lol

“She used the term militant vegan because that’s how the friend describes herself”

Well, if I was a vegan, I’d start describing myself as militant after reading this thread. Otherwise I might be offered beef stew followed by meringues and cream, and be dismissed as an incredibly rude guest if I didn’t eat it.......

And that’s perfectly fine, don’t you see that’s the point. You can identify yourself however you want to....as can other people.