... to not tell my militantly vegan friend she ate fish sauce?

[Snuffalo]

I am a relaxed vegan, as are one of my kids, the other kid and my partner are mostly vegetarian. Basically what that means for me is that I would never spend my own money on animal products, and I wouldn't use them in my own cooking, but if someone else prepares food for me or I'm a guest in someone's home I'll eat what's put in front of me, for the most part - I won't have a sausage or a burger at your barbecue, but I'll eat the pasta salad even if has cheese in it, and I'll have some of your birthday cake even if it's made with eggs.

Anyway, my friend Alice- who is a militant, rather than a relaxed, vegan

• was over and I heated up what I confidently thought to be vegan sweet potato and black bean chilli that my partner had made earlier in the week. I know the recipe backwards and forwards because one of us makes it at least once a month with zero animal products so I had no reason to suspect otherwise. I must say it was especially delicious this time - because, as it turns out, my partner added some fish sauce because he'd read somewhere that it's good in chilli. I didn't find out until today and now I'm wondering if I should tell Alice? I can't decide if, in her shoes, I would want to know or not. Would you?

Vegetarians DO NOT EAT FISH!!!!!!!!

Apparently it's OK if they want to define themselves as a relaxed vegetarian because everyone will know what this means. If you question their use of the term you're fucking the planet over by putting people off vegetarianism altogether. Or something.

so much gatekeeping...

The OP is getting such a hard time in this thread - the meanings of words ARE open to interpretation! That’s how language often works. People use the same word (possibly with qualifiers as the OP diligently did) to mean slightly different things. For example in India a ‘vegetarian’ doesn’t eat eggs, but the UK meaning is generally that vegetarians do eat eggs.

As an analogy someone who is Jewish may avoid pork, another Jew may avoid pork and seafood, another Jew may avoid pork, seafood and anything containing pig gelatine. Another Jew may not mix meat and milk products in the sane meals. Another Jew may only eat food from kitchens with a kosher certificate.

All identify as Jewish, all interpret the meaning differently to reflect their beliefs, circumstances, culture etc.

“All identify as Jewish, all interpret the meaning differently to reflect their beliefs, circumstances, culture etc.“
They all identify as Jewish. They are not all keeping Kosher.

If she is on Mumsnet you may have given her enough info by way of the food described here that she might already know she has eaten fish. Just apologise - it wasnt you who cooked it and she should be grateful you fed her and a real friend would know you hadnt done it on purpose.

But someone who avoids all pork, seafood products, and doesn’t mix meat and milk for example would most likely describe themselves as ‘keeping kosher’. Just because they may occasionally eat at a non kosher restaurant where meat and milk are not separated, I think they can rightly describe themselves as ‘kosher’. As I said meanings are fluid and binary - you have to accept that people will use one word, be it ‘vegan’ or ‘kosher’ to describe different things. It comes across as quite inflexible and dogmatic to suggest otherwise.

But if someone eats fish sauce because a recipe calls for it and they don't even think twice about it they are NOT vegetarian

“As I said meanings are fluid and binary”

How about “cat”?

Domestic cat, lion, tiger, panther...
All ‘cats’...

If meanings are fluid and binary, can I call myself a ‘relaxed vegetarian’?

I eat meat about 4 days a week. But the other 3 I eat veggie food.

Answer, no of course not. But using this as an example of how ‘relaxed’ can cover off any number of deviations until it becomes totally meaningless.

“Hi- we’re looking forward to seeing you on Friday- just checking that you don’t mind cats”
“Absolutely-I love cats!”
Friday
“Jesus Christ! A tiger’s just bitten my hand off in your kitchen!”
“But you said you loved cats.....”

Yep, the word ‘cat’ is fluid and the exact meaning will depend on context, expectations etc

I'm a lesbian, because I'm an adult human female attracted to other adult human females. If I had sex with both sexes would I be a relaxed lesbian? No, because I wouldn't fit the definition of lesbian. I would be bisexual. Language matters!!!

I think I’m more confused that your partner who is vegetarian added fish sauce

Yep, the word ‘cat’ is fluid

It’s not fluid. There are two clear and different definitions of ‘cat’. They’ll be outlined clearly in the dictionary.

It is not, to use the language of this thread, possible to be 80% cat.

Cat isnt fluid.

If an animal is a cat, it's a cat. It's not kind of a cat, or a cat most of the time. There are different sub types of cat. They are still cats or not cats. If they are a cat, they fit the scientific reasoning of 'cat'.

Eating non vegan food occassionally, means you are not vegan. I dont eat meat often. Doesnt make me a vegetarian.

Of course language is important.

In reality, you get plenty of 'monogamous' people who have affairs.

But they're not monogamous, are they? They might pretend to be, but they're not. That's why you put 'monogamous' in quotation marks. Similarly, someone who calls themselves a vegan while eating eggs and cheese is a "vegan", not an actual vegan.

It's like when people refer to their partner as their husband because "we're not married but we've been together for ten years and have three kids, he's basically my husband." There's already a word for someone you're in a long-term relationship with but aren't married to - partner! There's nothing wrong with having a partner!

Words are only 'fluid' if you don't understand 'class' as a concept.
(Which I think is the point of POMO thinking. Its rigid and inflexible.)

'Cat' is the word we use as a descriptor for a class of animals that all share certain characteristics.
Cats do not have to have all of the characteristics to be included in the class 'cat'. But they do have to have a set of core characteristics.

The characteristics can be written out as a list. We don't want to repeat the list in conversation, so we use the word 'cat' instead.

Its like using the word 'five' instead of 'one + one + one + one + one'.

And we thought trans threads were stressful

And we thought trans threads were stressful

Surely a person who describes themselves as monogamous, but is actually cheating, is just into monogamy in a relaxed way? Following that way of thinking.

Saying you are monogamous, but sleeping with more that one person is just pretending to monogamous? But not, in fact, being monogamous

Would they be monogamous, if they only snagged others in other people houses? Of course not. They wouldnt be monogamous.

Proving the point that a relaxed vegan isnt a vegan at all.

loopytiles limekiwi

Not going to suggest anyone calls themselves a turnip haver or that meat eaters have cis privilege. Or if I did I would run away very quickly.

OP, I bet you wished you said you ‘generally follow a vegan diet’ now 😂.

My nephew is a militant vegan

I’m just a simple country girl. 👩‍🌾 🐄 Can someone purleeeease explain to me what a “militant vegan” is?

Is it code for “someone who actually isn’t talking shite when they claim to be a vegan”?

Yes to the 'husband' references. If you're not married you aren't husband and wife.

I'm so glad other people think words matter and we don't just redefine them based on making yourself look like a member of a special club.

All this I can identify as whatever I like to make me unique and original and more intetesting or troubled is a whole level of self-indulgence that I haven't the patience for.