To be upset that he didn't respect my wishes about taking my children out on open water

[twirlytwit]

Long story short... FIL lives in small harbour side town on south coast. There is a walled off tidal pool, with a promenade walk way which we've witness children practicing sailing in previously.
Visiting FIL for Father's Day, 2.5 hour journey by car, happy to do so, relationships are good.
He's been keen to take the children out on his two man sea kayak and small dinghy with a motor for a while. I've never really been keen - kids are 4 and 6 now so I felt too young last year to either appreciate it or do so safely.
DH and children had to go without me Fri night as I had to work Sat morning.. then follow on by train, length of trip meaning I didn't arrive until 1600.
Before going I had a chat with DH and said very clearly that I was only comfortable with him taking the children on such a small boat within this walled harbour area and organised wetsuits for them to go. I even said to him I would consider it a serious breach of trust if he ignored my wishes. Also mentioned in a text to FIL re organising wetsuits that I wasn't keen for them to go in open water.
So yesterday I arrive (Sat) the kids meet me at the train station with DH, have already been out on the boats. First thing my daughter says was 'Mummy it tipped up and I drowned'. Clearly she hadn't actually drowned! But it turns out on questioning my husband they went out in the main harbour because it was too far to walk to the walled in bit. He then said he didn't know what I was taking about about the walled in bit anyway and was generally snotty/ignorant about it.
Turns out they went out in the general harbour area, not where I asked. In the dinghy at first which did not work (motor issues), had to row it back. Whilst FIL went back for oars husband had to secure the boat by hanging off an abandoned vessel in the harbour (for long enough that's he felt his arms might fall off - his words) with two kids bobbing about in it. Then they tried the kayak and managed overload and overturn it. Thank god they had buoyancy aids on. Kids like water but not competent swimmers (weekly lessons, but daughter still in little pool). Not used to the sea. It was cold & choppier than they thought it would be, but they continued. They failed to do something up properly on the kayak and water got in so apparently 'not their fault' it was overloaded. Kids a bit upset by the shock of falling into the water but the adults shoved them back onto the kayak and had to swim in back to shore. Got them back safely but I feel by luck rather then judgement.
Not a good introductory experience for the children. I told my husband that I was cross he'd ignored my wishes but didn't wish to spoil the weekend.
Then it turns out FIL spent the afternoon fixing the motor so they can go back out today. I've just said no. Kids not even keen, yesterday put them off. Son (6) said to
Me 'daddy lied and said we were in the safe harbour bit you told us about'.
AIBU? DH now has a strop on because I've 'embarrassed him' and don't trust him and his father enough to take the kids out safely.
Alternative is we leave early as I'm sticking with no today, it's horrible weather and I don't trust them to stay in the safe area - so left it as his choice.
Am I being unreasonable and spoiling their fun? I'm not a sailor or water goer so outside of my comfort zone.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/3282408-Sailing-boat

Well of COURSE you don't fucking trust him now, he's completely betrayed your initial trust and lied to you, plus put the children in danger by his and his father's total fucking incompetence!

I hope he's being stroppy because he realises what a fuckwit he's been, but it doesn't seem like it - seems like he doesn't still realise how much potential risk there was.

God, I'd be so angry.

I was furious with my DH for being similarly over-confident and fuckwitted with DS1 - I told him that I did not want his mother taking DS1 swimming in the lake because it's tidal, it drops off very quickly from the shore and she wasn't that secure on her feet. So he, of course, lets his mother take my 3yo non-swimming DS out in the lake, while he fishes from the jetty. She loses her footing (of course) and goes under - he's baiting the rod and only by luck turns around in time to see DS1 being held above the water with his mother submerged. Another couple of minutes and it could have been all over for both of them - as it was, he dived in and saved them (but trashed his phone in the process).
He then didn't tell me. I only found out because I heard him telling his boss about why he needed a new work phone - I thought he'd told me the truth and was lying to them until he looked horrified that I'd caught him out. Couldn't speak to him for a couple of days after that.

But at least he has never allowed the same situation to happen again! Unlike your even more fuckwitted husband who seems to think that because they got away with it the first time, there wasn't an actual problem!

Good luck. I'd take the kids home again.

It does sound like it was an inappropriate day in terms of location and water conditions, etc to take the kids out like that. And they hadn't thought about the most sensible and safe introduction to kayaking for young, inexperienced swimmers. And that would be seriously alarming at the lack of thought, especially after your discussion.

But I do think that as a big picture, it's fantastic for kids to get out on the water in canoes, kayaks, sailboats, etc. Builds confidence, and sets them up for a lifetime of healthy fun if they enjoy it.

Again, it's about how it's done: a quiet lake or inside the harbour is a better starting point for young children. And the appropriate flotation vest as well, including a neck flotation bit for younger children/inexperienced swimmers. My 3 all started going out on sailboats/canoes as toddlers. My oldest two started sailing their own boats at just 6 and 7 years old. And they are now both in UK regional and national fleets. It's been absolutely brilliant for them. My 14 year old can now drive a powerboat and has started helping instruct younger children. So many friendships, so much fun, and so much confidence. Again, brilliant for them.My youngest is also a competent sailor, although she's not quite as gung ho as her brothers. I do highly recommend water sports for children ... but there are sensible precautions that should always be in play, especially when they're starting out so as not to put them off.

Your FIL is doing courses. That's fantastic imo.
Before kicking off at your DH, perhaps ask him why you're upset. I suspect he'll know why. And then figure out together how to solve where he went wrong today. And how to make it safer and more sensible in the future. The last thing you want to do is put your little ones off the water and water sports entirely. That could have long term consequences, too, to their detriment. Learning to swim and learning about water safety is a life skill, and you don't want them to quit because they have clocked on to your fear and made it their own. Find a way to do it where everyone is happy if this is something your DH and your FIL want to share with the children long term.

I've name changed, obviously, as some of this could be quite outing for me.

Not a chance would allow that! I kayak a lot.

Oh, and please don't misunderstand my post: i would be incredibly upset at what you've described re what happened today because it wasn't safe enough and not thought through. I'm thinking long term for your family.

I do take water safety incredibly seriously, having had a young cousin drown when I was a child. Wouldn't wish that on any family. It was awful.

Answering questions, house is 5 min walk from where they launched. So when dinghy failed they swapped to kayak until it capsized. That wasn't the original plan. I'm not defending them, just stating the facts.

There has been no public debate. The rest of the family are not involved. They are aware I'm quiet today (and disapprove of me being glued to phone, but it's easier to vent here than than cause a scene). I've not discussed with FIL directly. Barely discussed with DH yet as too cross & it will spoil the Father's Day his FIL has planned. We are still his guests. When they mentioned taking the dinghy back out again to see if the motor is working I walked away. When upstairs later (Kids asleep) I told him no, they will not be going again and it wasn't up for debate. Conversation very brief. Hence him having to relay this to his dad this morning (I was not present for this and neither were children) and coming back 'feeling embarrassed'. His dad has not mentioned to me or acted any differently.
The men have now gone out to check the dinghy situ. Not asked to take kids. Wearing buoyancy aids. They have commented that the harbour isn't very deep, but I guess that's changeable with the tides as there are some sizeable yachts moored out there.

Husband did lots of yacht sailing with father & friends in teen/uni years. Not sure he went out particularly young.

Poole harbour poster - used to live that way. I sympathise. Hindsight is wonderful isn't it. I'm glad your family were ok. Poole harbour is a hotspot for sea sporting accidents as people wrongly assume it's very safe/sheltered. I just hope my DH learns from this as yours did.

The chat I plan to have with him however needs to wait until a more appropriate time, exactly as others have said. In private, no kids, less heated feelings & no spectators.

The buoyancy aids sound too old and unsuitable. Go out and buy them some age appropriate prior life jackets ready for when the DC do want to go out again!

I really hope your DH and FIL learnt their lesson.

Yes if you thin about it could have been avoided if the boats had been checked before use, appropriate equipment on board and proper life jackets used, as well as starting off on first trip etc in shallow waters.

It is the combination of things sound like the boats had not been used in a while.

But in this case... the verdict seems quite clear. I think they drastically overestimated the age/capabilities of the children. Husband ignored my wishes, FIL may have just been ignorant to them.

I don't think I would rule out taking the kids on the water but I would want a proper conversation about what happened, how to avoid engine breakdowns in future, what safety equipment they carry, how to avoid capsizes. And an agreement to stick to agreed areas. Not least because if something happened to them and they were late home. you would call for help but if you thought they were in a different location you would send the help to the wrong place. With water sports someone should know where you have gone. I know exact where my DH is sailing today so if he isn't in contact when I expect, I know where to contact to find out if he is still there and where I would send help.

I would also want DH to do some courses so it is not just FIL who has done training. And get new lifejackets for them!

If they continue to not recognise your concerns, you have a problem.

Come off it, Water. They - op's relatives - were seriously negligent - no amount of waxing lyrical about 'what fun it can be' covers for that.

On the water, I agree with absolutely everything you have said. Thanks.

I’m a sailing instructor, your DH and DFIL are incompetent. They have been lucky rather than skilled. All water is dangerous and demands respect, open water even more so. I came on this thread expecting to say you’re being unreasonable but you aren’t in the slightest. Anyone else working in the field would say the same as me.

sorry, took too long to post! I see you've addressed that Water.

You don't want to spoil Fathers Day op? If yesterday had gone badly wrong, which was close, how would Fathers Day have been for them?

I'm finding your sensible approach concerning op. Less of the quiet, surely. They put your kids' lives in serious danger, which was easily avoidable. How it didn't go seriously wrong was pure luck.

I just don't understand why you're treading carefully around what appears to be some super dick egos from here. Egos so huge they'd risk the lives of small kids and bluster about it.

But YY as OnTheWater has said, make sure they do get appropriate and positive experiences with water/boats etc. It’s fab as an activity and life skills. But that’s very different to yesterday’s experience.

Definitely get properly fitted life jackets. They need crotch straps at that age or they can slip right out of them.

If your kids are going to be around a sailing/kayaking family I'd recommend you get clued up yourself so you can join in!

Yes I also agree with what Onthewater says- make a plan for how to improve things and make it safer in future.

But yes i do think you need to talk about it- DH's family can be a bit like that- too polite to discuss anything important for fear of how the other will take it, and it is not helpful sometimes with important things such as this. But I understand it may be better to talk when quiet but do talk!

Unfortunately around watersports you do get some people who see things going wrong, needing to go back for oars after the engine stops, falling in etc as part of the 'fun' and an adventure. But really those people have just been lucky their adventures ended ok. Hopefully DH and FIL will see that the kids will have more fun on the water if it is better managed and they plan for different eventualities like engine failure.

FiL is clearly not as competent as he believes himself to be...

When you learn kayaking / dinghy sailing... Part of the training is righting boats and getting yourself safely out of the water... You practise this surrounded by qualified people, with life jackets and with safety boats in attendance...

This..

' I agree too to putting your foot down today but also later on have a conversation with your DH about a safe way to get your children on to the water, something that he'll actually stick to.
Must involve supervision ratios, training, life jackets, suitable boats with backup, agreed sailing areas for different age and swimming competency, agreement over sea conditions, and I'd probably set a condition that he watch every series of Saving Lives At Sea too. Would you also be willing to get involved, maybe see if there are family days at the local sailing club?'.

Guarantee they won't have thought about those last paragraphs... As in safety ratios/safety boats/sailing according to age and swim ability... .. What actually sailing /kayaking safely entails...

What they've heard is... What an adventure! .. It just shows how good we are as no one drowned! ....OP is just being a helicopter parent and a woman spoiling our fun... '

This is PURE LUCK

“If your kids are going to be around a sailing/kayaking family I'd recommend you get clued up yourself so you can join in!”

Why on earth are people suggesting the OP should join in if she doesn’t want to?

I just shared this video to remind Dh what can happen

YANBU. You are the children's mother and therefore you should have the final say and not your FIL. Your husband should have been on your side here especially seeing as your main concern was safety related.

“YANBU. You are the children's mother and therefore you should have the final say and not your FIL.”

Ignore the FIL-he is obviously an arse, but a side issue. You need to focus on your DP - and our id the hearing if anyone else -your children or your PIL.