To be upset that he didn't respect my wishes about taking my children out on open water

[twirlytwit]

Long story short... FIL lives in small harbour side town on south coast. There is a walled off tidal pool, with a promenade walk way which we've witness children practicing sailing in previously.
Visiting FIL for Father's Day, 2.5 hour journey by car, happy to do so, relationships are good.
He's been keen to take the children out on his two man sea kayak and small dinghy with a motor for a while. I've never really been keen - kids are 4 and 6 now so I felt too young last year to either appreciate it or do so safely.
DH and children had to go without me Fri night as I had to work Sat morning.. then follow on by train, length of trip meaning I didn't arrive until 1600.
Before going I had a chat with DH and said very clearly that I was only comfortable with him taking the children on such a small boat within this walled harbour area and organised wetsuits for them to go. I even said to him I would consider it a serious breach of trust if he ignored my wishes. Also mentioned in a text to FIL re organising wetsuits that I wasn't keen for them to go in open water.
So yesterday I arrive (Sat) the kids meet me at the train station with DH, have already been out on the boats. First thing my daughter says was 'Mummy it tipped up and I drowned'. Clearly she hadn't actually drowned! But it turns out on questioning my husband they went out in the main harbour because it was too far to walk to the walled in bit. He then said he didn't know what I was taking about about the walled in bit anyway and was generally snotty/ignorant about it.
Turns out they went out in the general harbour area, not where I asked. In the dinghy at first which did not work (motor issues), had to row it back. Whilst FIL went back for oars husband had to secure the boat by hanging off an abandoned vessel in the harbour (for long enough that's he felt his arms might fall off - his words) with two kids bobbing about in it. Then they tried the kayak and managed overload and overturn it. Thank god they had buoyancy aids on. Kids like water but not competent swimmers (weekly lessons, but daughter still in little pool). Not used to the sea. It was cold & choppier than they thought it would be, but they continued. They failed to do something up properly on the kayak and water got in so apparently 'not their fault' it was overloaded. Kids a bit upset by the shock of falling into the water but the adults shoved them back onto the kayak and had to swim in back to shore. Got them back safely but I feel by luck rather then judgement.
Not a good introductory experience for the children. I told my husband that I was cross he'd ignored my wishes but didn't wish to spoil the weekend.
Then it turns out FIL spent the afternoon fixing the motor so they can go back out today. I've just said no. Kids not even keen, yesterday put them off. Son (6) said to
Me 'daddy lied and said we were in the safe harbour bit you told us about'.
AIBU? DH now has a strop on because I've 'embarrassed him' and don't trust him and his father enough to take the kids out safely.
Alternative is we leave early as I'm sticking with no today, it's horrible weather and I don't trust them to stay in the safe area - so left it as his choice.
Am I being unreasonable and spoiling their fun? I'm not a sailor or water goer so outside of my comfort zone.

Strop not strip!

YAnbu, at 6 & 4 it’s not safe. The water is still very cold. And neither FIL nor dh sound remotely competent.

And good point from pp on lifejackets. At their ages they should still be in giant luminous lifejackets with crotch straps and head supports. Buoyancy aids don't have the foam around the back of their necks like a pillow and the foam isn't distributed to force them to float on their backs. They need to be well fitted and the straps properly done up - if you pull upwards on the shoulder straps, the lifejacket shouldn't go up over the mouth. If it does it is too loose/too big.

He should be bloody embarrassed. He's put his young children in an unnecessarily dangerous position.

I would be v.v annoyed and just take them home.

Open water, small children that can't swim well? Incompetence? And to not even have the understanding of why they are in the wrong? What were they thinking?

They weren't in open water, if I read the opening post right.

They were in a second (larger?) part of the harbour. So concerns about tide, currents etc aren't relevant.

The DC were unharmed and unbothered. There were a series of work-arunds to problems, that all worked in the end.

Did the DC enjoy being on the water?

Because if they did, then you are looking at them wanting to go again, and it becomes a question of how to manage this reasonably. Is there really any cause to think the outer harbour is less safe than the inner one?

For sea kayaking, is there a nice, known bit of shore tpwhere they could go (likely to be easier and safer than a harbour for that) and have they got proper sea kayaks? From opening post, I'm guessing not, so would he consider getting/borrowing?

They are still on the young side though - I'd reckon 8 ish to learn to powerboat and 8-10 for kayaking. Can you al, work together to find a way to fend off the interest for a bit longer?

Your DH's family is clearly very keen on these sports, so perhaps start with him. Because FIL will (rightly) be taking a parent's word on what can be done, and so DH needs to be saying things on which you are both agreed. Which may well be somewhat more than you originally stipulated (ie both inner and outer harbour) or considerably less (not at all, because you are too concerned about consequences of falling in)

I have a relative in the RNLI. I'm coming from this stance- if I explained this situation to him, with all the nuances- he'd be HORRIFIED.

You're not overreacting, these gung -ho attitudes to the sea cost real lives. This was a catalogue of errors which nearly led to disaster. This could have ended VERY differently.

If my relative had pulled this sorry show out of the sea they'd have received a well deserved bollocking.

Stick to your guns. So what if your husband is embarrassed .....is he intimidated by his father?
He should be putting his children's safety first not his manly pride.

I don't honestly know how you could get past this. I'd want to drown the pair of them

we are keen sailors but I would not have been confident going out with two young kids who are not competent swimmers. Mine started dinghy sailing at 6, and that was with RYA instructors and safety boats. Your FiL and DH were out of order and sound so unprepared, They should have gone to the enclosed harbour.

I think that you are worrying too much. This doesn't sound like "open water" it's stooging about in the harbour mouth. Plenty of people and help about and not far to get to a landing spot. It's good to "accidentally" fall out of a kayak, as you then learn not to panic and what to do. Playing in a kayak and a motor dinghy isn't really sailing so I wouldn't fret about it.

I would only allow it if they were competent swimmers. If your husband falls out and hits his head, who's going to look after the children? It's dangerous really. Keep sending them to swimming lessons so they'll be ready one day.

They are very young to be somewhere tidal. I'm from a sailing family and found it scary as a kid.

I'd say every adult involved in this is being silly. Organise some training sessions for your kids before you let them go out in boats.

I don't know what your DH and FIL were thinking.
Your DH is obviously being defensive as he knows you were right so I am astounded to hear that he wants to repeat the error. Maybe it's bravado in front of his dad.
Suggest DH and FIL have a lovely fathers' day trip out on the boat together and you could all go for a nice meal afterwards.

The lying isn't on at all. I'd feel the same as you.

Being in the main harbour vs the walled bit wouldn't bother me in itself, if the adults were competent.

However, your DH and FIL don't sound anywhere near competent enough to be taking children that young out, especially children who aren't confident swimmers yet. Children are usually pretty resilient and bounce back from falling in, but I would imagine watching DH and FIL flounder around like fools, plus thr lying has probably made them lose trust in them. Rightly so!

I'm a sea scout leader and was prepared to accuse you of helicopter parenting.

However, your DH and FIL sound far to blasé about the risks of open water. YANBU.

This would make me feel sick and I’m not sure how I’d get over it.

I’d feel like my trust had been completely breached but also that both DH and FIL were unable to keep my children safe.

Without an admission of a massive error in judgement and a proper apology to all of you I’m not sure if I’d be able to trust him again.

Very dangerous. I was swimming last year at a beach I know very well. Misjudged the tide and was swept out of my depth. It was really hard to get back to shore, had to swim parallel and walk back afterwards. Extremely scary. Yanbu, the water is still bloody cold, your dh and fil are wankers.

It's good to "accidentally" fall out of a kayak, as you then learn not to panic and what to do.

No - it's good to learn how to fall out of a kayak under the supervision of a qualified instructor who is able to run the safety drill of exactly how you cope in that situation. Our OA instructor at school runs training sessions in the swimming pool where students deliberately roll the kayaks in order to learn what to do next. Only then will he take them out on the river.

He doesn't just send them out into the sea to be supervised by someone with no qualifications who allows them to capsize because they're too incompetent to prevent it.

We went sailing in open water from about 6 or 7. The difference being that my dad was very experienced, knew what he was doing and took every safety precaution ie we sailed with a sailing club with rescue boats on hand.

So, it's not the open water thats the problem, it's their lack of experience and risk awareness that makes you not unreasonable to say no.

OP an enormous breach of trust.

Your husband is a weak, stupid man to put his children at such risk.

Clearly neither your husband or FIL knew what they were doing yet decided to bring two small children with them.

Astonishing.

I would be so upset at my husband for putting my children in peril.

What a selfish twat.

I wouldn't be able to look at him, not to mind trust him again.

While holidaying in Scotland around 2012 we heard the news that two dads had taken their children out in a canoe in Gairloch. The canoe collapsed, one man and his two sons drowned, one man swam for safety followed by his two girls, unfortunately one girl drowned. All four of the kids had buoyancy aids on, not lifejackets. This happened on open water on a nice sunny day. Your husband and FIL are fuckwits.

The problem with a straight refusal to let them is that your DH is digging his heels in.

Ask him to have an adult conversation. What are his plans? What risks has he identified and how to mitigate against them? How does he know the buoyancy aids are for for purpose? Etc. Etc.

I'm not afraid of the sea and think we should give kids even as young as 4 experience of it but it needs planning to be safe. If your DH can't see that he's not safe to take them out.

And as others have said neither of you should be involving the kids in the dispute.

E.g a compromise might be taking one at a time, so there are two adults looking after one non swimming child.

Some typical over the top reactions here. OP, Google summer sailing courses and send your dcs on one. Sailing can be a lovely activity to do together but you must ensure your children know what they are doing first.