To think sharing night wakings can be so important?

[Bumpitybumper]

Whenever I see a thread posted by a SAHM or woman on maternity leave complaining that their partner does not get up enough with their child in the night, there will inevitably be a number of posters that express the view that the working partner's sleep should be preserved above all else and basically the mother should willingly push herself to the point of exhaustion. The logic is always that the working parent needs a full night's sleep because they work and I have seen this extended to all jobs, not just those that are physically/mentally demanding or those that are safety critical. The OPs of these threads are usually absolutely knackered, desperate for some support and I do wonder what it would take for some people to accept that a person still needs a certain amount of sleep to safely function as a human and parent even if they don't need to go to work the next day

I then read this story:www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7142159/Mother-jailed-killed-grandmother-car-crash-fell-asleep-wheel.html

For those not wanting to click, it's basically a really sad story about a mother who killed a woman as a result of falling asleep at the wheel of her car following a disrupted night of sleep with her child. I think the mother in this instance was back at work, but it really highlighted the importance of making sure that the interrupted sleep that children bring is shared between parents wherever possible in a way that makes sure that both parties can carry out their activities and duties in a safe way. Realistically SAHPs and women on maternity leave will do loads of things that require a decent level of concentration (driving, walking to town, supervising kids etc) and it is in everyone's interests to make sure that they aren't unintentionally falling asleep or losing focus whilst undertaking these activities.

I never slept during the day on mat leave; on my first I was living with my PILs and just wanted to be out of my MILs clutches, then when DTs were born I had a toddler so I couldn’t just hop into bed and rest.

It’s a judgement call isn’t it? If you feel too knackered to drive, don’t do it unless you absolutely have to.

Sometimes being a parent is shit and you are so tired you could cry but I always found it felt worse in the middle of the night and once I got up it was more manageable. “Get up, get coffee, get on” was a mantra that helped me when my twins were waking every 40 minutes

“Catching up on sleep during the day” was not the reality for me. My child would not sleep in her crib for longer than a few minutes during the day. It’s a myth for many women, that one.

Yes! Sick of hearing this trotted out

I read this as an example of why you should prioritize the sleep of the person who is likely to be driving and is most affected by sleep deprivation. If that's a mum doing the school run, then that person if it's the person driving to work or doing an intellectually or physically demanding job, it's that person.

First time around, I shared. it was shit, we all felt awful, second time around my husband slept separately and I rested when the baby slept (which the baby did for me, luck I know but that's why tailoring to your child/own circumstances is sensible). I then would have sleep trained before going back to work at 6 months as I knew I'd be a danger on the roads, but my second slept through anyway.

I don't believe everyone being knackered is the way forward and would prioritize similarly again- my husband also took the baby out on Sat/Sun mornings so I could write a book/catch a nap for a few hours so to me, the most sensible thing is to look at who needs what and adapt your lifestyle to that.

Nearlyalmost50. I agree and you raise a valuable point that it’s probably worse now (as someone said a way back, mothers used to cope) because the most prevalent view is you can’t do anything about babies not sleeping. Most on MN won’t consider sleep training so the sleepless nights persist for much, much longer.

Most on MN won’t consider sleep training so the sleepless nights persist for much, much longer.

you do realise it's not a magical solution, don't you?

Unless you put baby in cot, close the door and come back in the morning, "sleep training" doesn't mean a baby will sleep through the night.

If only it was that easy

No doubt that parents listen out for their kids more in the night that they did in the past - baby monitors, those pads you can put into the cots or on the nappies etc.

My MIL is almost 83 and she would have just closed the door and said goodnight, see you in the morning to her babies. She was horrified at the nighttime goings-on when DS1 was small. Luckily she was a little deaf and I stopped telling her how frequently he woke or that he slept in the bed with us.

Yanbu. But I'm a LP and done every night waking on my own. Luckily I'm able to walk to work.

My 10yr old didn't sleep for years and I'm still not feeling human. I was walking to work this week trying to keep going and thinking I could just fall asleep on a bench 😩. Memory is shot to pieces.

MonrondelaFrontera Actually no, that isn’t my understanding. Done properly sleep training is usually a magical cure. It’s hard to do for a few days but proven to work.
Yes, it does involve taking a firm line, yes both parents have to be on board and no psychological harm does not follow - quite the opposite. It teaches infants a life skill. A decent sleep pattern prevents huge stress in the family. It reduces anxiety and mental health problems in the parents and builds resilience in the child.

I agree. We went to bed early and DH got up from 3 onwards so I was guaranteed a decent stretch of sleep. I have some friends who did it all and I have no idea how they functioned.

Most on MN won’t consider sleep training so the sleepless nights persist for much, much longer.

I’m so glad I didn’t consider it. It took almost 11 months but now DD is sleeping through the night because she’s developmentally ready/ not teething anymore. I could never leave her to cry, even for 5 minutes. Babies cry for a reason, because they are in pain or need comfort.

Re: sleep training. I get a lot of stick for not doing it because my DS is nearly 21 months, still not sleeping through and i’m still doing all the nights.

I struggle with anxiety and depression. For many years now. So do my dad and sister so there is definitely a genetic factor. My DH has suffered very badly in the past so I worry a lot about my DS’s risk of having poor mental health. For every study that says sleep training causes no psychological harm there’s another one saying it’s too early for children to be experiencing the rise in cortisol that comes with not being picked up quickly when they’re crying. So there’s no definite answer and I might be talking as a very tired and not too rational individual but i’m not willing to take the risk right now.

@AgentCooper I feel for you

But in all likelihood your anxiety is exacerbated tremendously by lack of sleep

In addition your child will be having broken nights too

Sometimes the rip the plaster off is the best approach. Couple of days of tears and then decent nights with bright cheerful mornings

It is definitely a personal thing but I could have written the post that @PerfectPeony2 written.

I knew sleep training wasn't for me or my DS. I took a while longer than most but at 14months he sleeps brilliantly and I am happy in the knowledge that I didn't put him through (IMO) unnecessary stress of crying to be comforted and made to feel secure. While I am unsure of the lasting impact of controlled crying, if at all any, I was more of the in that moment he didn't need to be left crying or distressed.

He is obviously now ready to be sleeping through and we are all happy.

@AgentCooper nobody should be giving you "stick" for doing or not doing anything (within reason obviously) sleep training is a choice for you to make and what you feel is best for your baby, wether that be to sleep train or not to.

I agree. My husband and I share night wakings. He works full time and I am a stay at home mum to a toddler and a baby. If I am up all night by myself with the baby I wouldn’t be able to function and look after the baby and toddler all day.

@Tigger001 is your ds your only child?

Yes he is our only child, ? Why do you ask ? @Amibeingdaft81

Completely agree OP - it’s a topic that infuriates me at times. Being responsible for a tiny baby’s physical and emotional well being is much more important than many people’s jobs. People think mothers should always be the ones tosuffer though. Patriarchy innit?!

He’s 14 months? Just remember you from another thread

No if you have another little read, I said he slept through at 14 months??

When you have more than one, you are forced to have you newborn screaming sometimes for you but no choice but to leave.

I’m recalling epic bath tantrums with my toddler and in the background my newborn screaming.

She’s not a very very happy and robust 6 year old!

now

@Amibeingdaft81 sorry yes, it should have said took longer than most but at 14 months he slept through. Apologies but thank you for remembering !

I can understand there may occasions where you have no option but to let a child cry. My opinion was relating to choosing to let your child cry with controlled crying.

@user1493413286
I don’t agree actually as your example of the car crash shows that the working parent waking in the night could cause serious harm while driving to work whereas if you don’t work then the majority of your activities are optional. When I was on maternity leave if I was really tired I didn’t drive anywhere
Don't you see how many assumptions you have built into your post that wouldn't be true for lots of women? Mothers on maternity leave can have lots of non-optional responsibilities that are infinitely easier to do whilst driving including doing the school run with older children or getting to hospital appointments etc. Of course there are always alternative methods of transport, but this too is true for the WOHP. I think realistically we all know that the inconvenience and extra time/money you need to use public transport for some journeys is prohibitive for most hence most people feel like they need to drive. Pretending that this isn't true for lots of mothers on maternity leave and they can just pop on the bus to get to wherever they need to go is ridiculous. Also the assumption seems to be that you weren't always really tired so some days you would drive whilst others you would take public transport. For many sleep deprivation lasts a very long time and to suggest that a person can't drive for the whole of this period might be safe and arguably necessary, but it is also unrealistic for many.

I also preferred one of us to be well rested at the weekends to take up the slack during the day and be the one to drive
Someone doesn't need seven nights of unbroken sleep to be well rested enough to be able to drive safely at the weekends...

Once you’re both back at work then yes it needs to be shared and you need to help each other to get enough sleep even if that’s one of you going to bed very early some nights
Why does it take the mother going back to work for you to admit that there is a way to share night wakings so that both can get sufficient rest? What about the mothers that work from home, use public transport to get to work or have a small commute that would actually drive less in their working days than their days looking after the children? I just don't understand why it is only when a woman goes back to work that she is deemed worthy of her partner stepping up and sharing the load.

@stucknoue
If you are on maternity leave doing work nights is fair, in the article she was working, in which case 50/50 is fair
It's this kind of statement that I really object to and think is very damaging. How can you definitively say for every family that a woman on maternity leave should automatically cover all night wakings on work nights? You have no idea how many times the child has been awake, how long each waking has lasted, why the child is awake in the first place or the effect that the sleep deprivation is having on the mother's mental and physical health. You also don't know anything about the father and if he actually desperately needs full nights of unbroken sleep (I accept some jobs do require this) or if like most of us, he could get by on sub-optimal but sufficient sleep.

The implication of what you've written is that a woman who is absolutely shattered, operating on virtually no sleep and on the point of a complete breakdown would be wrong to ask her partner to share night wakings on working nights as that would be "unfair". Absolutely horrendous!