To think sharing night wakings can be so important?

[Bumpitybumper]

Whenever I see a thread posted by a SAHM or woman on maternity leave complaining that their partner does not get up enough with their child in the night, there will inevitably be a number of posters that express the view that the working partner's sleep should be preserved above all else and basically the mother should willingly push herself to the point of exhaustion. The logic is always that the working parent needs a full night's sleep because they work and I have seen this extended to all jobs, not just those that are physically/mentally demanding or those that are safety critical. The OPs of these threads are usually absolutely knackered, desperate for some support and I do wonder what it would take for some people to accept that a person still needs a certain amount of sleep to safely function as a human and parent even if they don't need to go to work the next day

I then read this story:www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7142159/Mother-jailed-killed-grandmother-car-crash-fell-asleep-wheel.html

For those not wanting to click, it's basically a really sad story about a mother who killed a woman as a result of falling asleep at the wheel of her car following a disrupted night of sleep with her child. I think the mother in this instance was back at work, but it really highlighted the importance of making sure that the interrupted sleep that children bring is shared between parents wherever possible in a way that makes sure that both parties can carry out their activities and duties in a safe way. Realistically SAHPs and women on maternity leave will do loads of things that require a decent level of concentration (driving, walking to town, supervising kids etc) and it is in everyone's interests to make sure that they aren't unintentionally falling asleep or losing focus whilst undertaking these activities.

No one here to help with my son waking in the night. If I was too tired to drive then I didn’t, I’m not selfish enough or stupid enough to put other people’s live at risk.

I really wondered how our mums and their mums survived it all because very few of them did have husbands willing to be up at night.

My view is that it really depends on each circumstance. Some babies wake up every 4 hours, have a quick bottle, nappy changed and back to sleep. Fine, but others like mine were awake every 2 hours, were not interested in going back to sleep immediately and also spend many hours crying. My partner had a demanding job that required much concentration and commuted 4 hours a day. No way could he have coped with being awake half of the night without the option of catching up on sleep during the day which I had.

Yes I was totally knackered, yes, I was miserable, but I survived it. Of course it is tragic to have an accident due to sleep deprivation but being woken up in the night by babies is not the only cause of insomnia. People don't sleep well because of pain, stress, menopause, sleep apnea. In the end, we all have to take responsibility for driving whilst severely sleep deprived. If she was back working before baby was still waking up for hours every night, then of course getting upshould have been shared.

I had a 12 month maternity leave period. During this time and from the first day we took our DS home, my husband and I shared the night time feeds. Tiredness is tiredness regardless of its source. We were adamant that we would support one another.

“Catching up on sleep during the day” was not the reality for me. My child would not sleep in her crib for longer than a few minutes during the day. It’s a myth for many women, that one.

OP I agree with you (and admire your level graded responses to some of this!). Of course every family should do what works best for them. But it should genuinely be what is best for them and not what society might pressure them to do. Once my DH was back to work he went in the spare room and that worked fine for a while. But once we hit twelve weeks sleep went to absolute shit for several months and I was absolutely bone tired. I did sense that he felt entitled to a full nights sleep and I did have to put a bit of pressure on for some help which I badly needed. He understood after a bit and now we share things much more fairly.

What you say about the deprivation ramping up is so true and it does get to dangerous levels. Plus personally when I was tired the urge to get out of the house (often necessitating driving) was much higher.

I’ve never really understood the logic of the working partner needing a full night of sleep every night. Especially as like pp I have never had a baby that allowed me to nap when they napped! Long days with a baby are hard for lots of people for lots of different reasons and an alert, mentally well parent is definitely best all round. Posts from mums absolutely on their knees with exhaustion and a partner that can’t/won’t help always bother me.

Just a note though that I’m incredibly grateful and lucky to be in a position to have a partner to help at all, day and night.

If you are exclusively bf, you have to do all the night feeds . But the idea is that the male partner can pull their weight elsewhere - cooking, cleaning, looking after other children, taking the baby where ever they can. The important part is the support they can give. Most couples who bf sorted out a schedule where the mum got some downtime to sleep even if that was between 7 and 10pm.

Dc1 was an excellent sleeper, dc2 was a terrible sleeper as is dh. During the week, he had long motorway drives to work. He would get dc1 up, do breakfast, take him to nursery. Dh sharing night feeds would have left him exhausted and a danger to other road users. Him pulling his weight in other areas made all the difference to my sanity.

I barely drove on my 2nd ML. I walked or took the bus. My experience is coloured by a car accident I had driving when tired in my early 20s (fortunately minor).

As an aside, I agree the pp who said that 2am feeds are the best though.

When DD1 was about 6months old, DH popped home for lunch (as he did most days, he worked 5 mins away). I fell asleep after only have a few hours sleep a night for the past few months. When it was time to go back to work, he couldn't wake me fully. So he took her back to work with him. And started doing at least one waking a night as he it was obvious that the current situation was unsafe. She never slept for longer than hours.

Absolutely 100% agree. DH and I have always shared where possible. Even when I was still BF I would give the baby straight to him to settle after a feed so I could sleep then.

JADS I completely agree, my DH would walk in the door and whisk our DS off, he had missed him through the day, added bonus it gave me a break to have a sleep or just chill out. He did the breakfast wake up twice a week. They don't have to be up through the night to show support, unless obviously that's the area the support is needed.

The driver should never have put others at risk.

If you are on maternity leave doing work nights is fair, in the article she was working, in which case 50/50 is fair

Thank you for posting this op. I spent far too long arguing this on a recent thread and actually felt quite upset at how many people felt that SAHM shouldn’t be helped at night. Of course individual circumstances will vary but the horrendous experiences of some of my friends with, I’m sorry, but incredibly selfish partners should not be ignored. It’s another instance of women having to put up and shut up.

They don't have to be up through the night to show support,

exactly!

I even prefer a partner who sleeps through the night and is on hand the following day, even around work, than having 2 adults zombie.

If the man has a long commute or a job that requires a high level of concentration, I think it's foolish to ask them to share night feeds. Mums on mat leave rarely need to drive long distances. I took buses a lot of my mat leave as it was easier to transfer her in/out of the pram than wake her up to get her in and out of the car seat!

Also, babies nap so you get regular opportunities to lie down and rest/sleep. You can't do that at work!

But if your on maternity leave or a sahm you can nap in the day and don't have to drive (most the time).

This woman could do neither as she worked and so yes it's fair her partner shared the night duties. For non working parents I still think they should take the majority of the night duties.

If exclusively BFing then “sharing the night feeds” is nonsensical. The aim imo is maximising rest/sleep for everyone - in our case that was DH giving a bottle at 10pm so I could sleep 8pm to 2am or so and (now that DD is older) waking one weekend morning with her.

I think it really depends OP

If you’re both back at work then absoloutley should be shared but maternity leave is recognition of the fact you aren’t going to be able to sleep to function in your role so whilst I agree that the working partner should pitch in- surely it’s common sense that the partner who is off work to care for the child do the lions share?

It’s a very sad story but an element of personal responsibility has to be applied - if you get behind the wheel of a car YOU are solely responsible for your safety/ability to do so.
It doesn’t matter if you ‘have to go to work’ or ‘have an important apt’ - call a cab or call in sick but do not fall asleep at the wheel and kill someone!

I understand that women want to have it all now and that’s awesome, but society doesn’t owe them the right for things to be manageable or affordable after kids.

When you have a baby, you know it’s going to be a) expensive and b) exhausting. It shocks me how many women seem to perceive parenthood as a walk in the park and then are so ‘shocked’ by the reality.

I think at some point we do have to remember that (for the vast majority) parenthood was a choice and we can’t expect exceptions to be made for us.

For us it was a huge deal to share and I'm so glad we did.

^ Also my DH is a Dr who spends all day operating on people (including children) so personally I wouldn’t be comfortable letting him go and work a 13 hour shift after a horrible night of disrupted sleep.

Could he do it? Maybe
Would I feel guilty if his extreme fatigue meant he made a mistake that cost somebody else their life? YES

People talk like looking after a baby is this impossible task. Yes in the first 4 weeks you ideally need help. But after that things start to calm down and by about 3 months it's more than manageable for one person to look after a house, older children and the baby on their own.

How to people think single mums manage.

My first husband de idea he would go and work abroad as soon as my baby was born so he didn't have to be inconvenienced with the small baby period. I had to deal with it alone. I went back to work after 6 weeks again alone. Luckily my baby was one of those who always slept right through the night almost from the beginning or I would not have been able to cope.

I don’t agree actually as your example of the car crash shows that the working parent waking in the night could cause serious harm while driving to work whereas if you don’t work then the majority of your activities are optional. When I was on maternity leave if I was really tired I didn’t drive anywhere. I breastfed so there wasn’t really any point to DH getting up.
I also preferred one of us to be well rested at the weekends to take up the slack during the day and be the one to drive.
Once you’re both back at work then yes it needs to be shared and you need to help each other to get enough sleep even if that’s one of you going to bed very early some nights

Dp and I didn't share, he is a teacher and I felt like he needed to be well rested. He needs his sleep more than me too, I can naturally manage with less.

I was surprised to find I quite liked the night feeds, once dd was back asleep I could catch up on news and stuff on my phone. It felt like a little bit of time just for me which I didn't get much of through the day.

It probably depends how often baby gets up etc though. Dd only ever got up 2 / 3 times during the night although in the first few months a feed would take 1.5 hours.

Agree with your point totally, OP - but object to your assumption that being a SAHP to a baby is not 'work'. I've found it far more demanding physically and mentally than my paid job (which is no walk in the park either), and you could definitely argue that raising a good citizen is more important and beneficial to society than lots of people's paid employment. I find it quite depressing that this view is still an outlier, tbh.

Agree! I ebf all mine in the early days but once fed if they wouldn't settle we'd swap after an hour. (Luckily they didn't wake loads of times just didn't always go back down after so an hour awake seemed a reasonable amount to deal with!)

Even with my second who slept really well just the feed and straight back to bed took its toll.

Also (in my experience) dads at work are expected to be exhausted and get lots of sympathy and help if they're obviously shattered so unless in a dangerous job they'll probably be fine!

She obviously has a dh problem, either he’s had a full night of sleep and ignored the fact that the toddler isn’t strapped in or that his wife is knackered or he might have been up as well resulting in two tired parents

It’s actually the family of the lady that died I feel sorry for, not the women blaming the fact she was up in the night for killing someone