To think sharing night wakings can be so important?

[Bumpitybumper]

Whenever I see a thread posted by a SAHM or woman on maternity leave complaining that their partner does not get up enough with their child in the night, there will inevitably be a number of posters that express the view that the working partner's sleep should be preserved above all else and basically the mother should willingly push herself to the point of exhaustion. The logic is always that the working parent needs a full night's sleep because they work and I have seen this extended to all jobs, not just those that are physically/mentally demanding or those that are safety critical. The OPs of these threads are usually absolutely knackered, desperate for some support and I do wonder what it would take for some people to accept that a person still needs a certain amount of sleep to safely function as a human and parent even if they don't need to go to work the next day

I then read this story:www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7142159/Mother-jailed-killed-grandmother-car-crash-fell-asleep-wheel.html

For those not wanting to click, it's basically a really sad story about a mother who killed a woman as a result of falling asleep at the wheel of her car following a disrupted night of sleep with her child. I think the mother in this instance was back at work, but it really highlighted the importance of making sure that the interrupted sleep that children bring is shared between parents wherever possible in a way that makes sure that both parties can carry out their activities and duties in a safe way. Realistically SAHPs and women on maternity leave will do loads of things that require a decent level of concentration (driving, walking to town, supervising kids etc) and it is in everyone's interests to make sure that they aren't unintentionally falling asleep or losing focus whilst undertaking these activities.

I did night wakings whilst they were in our room and feeding at night. At 6 months they were having plenty of nutrition during the day so weaned them off night feeds. At that point DH took over. These were not hard and fast rules but rather the starting point - flexibility is key.
After that if it was nightmares or illness or some such we’d work it out as we went along.

To be honest we don’t know if her husband wasn’t helping with the night wakings. I know my limitations, and I have chosen not to drive when I have been exhausted as I refused to put myself and others at risk. To be so tired to fall asleep at the wheel is pretty poor really regardless of whether her husband helped in the night time or not.

Can't imagine anything worse that breast-feeding and having OH wittering, what is he supposed to actually do? It seems to be a petty attitude to say if I'm awake so should he be! I used to love the 2 am feed, cup of coffee and Word Service on the radio, we were abroad. If you're at home there will be time during the day to rest, even sleep.

People should do whatever suits their own family best, no judgement! I did/do all the night wakings, in my household I believe it’s best for my children if I am the only one who comes in at night to sort them out, as it’s the same routine and they know what to expect. Every family is different, every family has different needs.

Agree with matchsetpoint. I did all wakings but I wanted the consistency to understand patterns etc to try reduce them. I wouldn't have been able to sleep through it anyway unlike my partner!! I always thought about it as collective energy and my partner pulls his weight overall so it works for us

I think when you’re breastfeeding though it isn’t really an option.

DD always wanted me. It was hard but I think it has made our bond stronger. Most of the time I could just latch her on and she’d go back to sleep. If DH tried to console her she’d scream. I loved breastfeeding and tbh I wanted to be the primary care giver. Most of the time I liked the clingy I only want Mummy stage! I still do.

DH was always willing to help and always gets up at 5am with her when he doesn’t have to be in work so I can lie in.

Did you even read that story? She wasn't back to work after maternity leave. She wasn't nursing a newborn. Her child was 18 months old and had just had a heart operation. Her husband was in the car at the time too and the child wasn't strapped in properly.

Everyone knows sleep deprivation kills. The difference is the parent on maternity leave can often sleep during the day, the working parent doesn't have that option. No one should be driving if they are sleep deprived.

I have had two babies and never had the opportunity to 'sleep when the baby sleeps'. Had either of my babies been good daytime nappers, I still doubt I would have caught up with sleep in the day, as napping has always been an impossibility for me. I just can't sleep in the day, no matter how tired (maybe this is genetic?).

I think we should all accept that every family is different and each situation is unique.

I dont drive, but if I did I'd be scared to when tired from dealing with night wakings.

@PotatoesDieInHotCars
Did you even read that story? She wasn't back to work after maternity leave. She wasn't nursing a newborn. Her child was 18 months old and had just had a heart operation. Her husband was in the car at the time too and the child wasn't strapped in properly
Did you even read my OP? I acknowledge that the mother was working and didn't mention nursing new borns or even night feeds. I specifically talked more broadly about night wakings which could cover any scenario where a child is awake a lot in the night. The facts remain in this story that the mother was exhausted from being awake all night with her child and consequently caused a tragic car accident. Just because her husband was in the car and her child wasn't strapped in properly that doesn't negate any of this.

Everyone knows sleep deprivation kills. The difference is the parent on maternity leave can often sleep during the day, the working parent doesn't have that option.
Speak for yourself. I couldn't sleep during the day with either of my babies. What about babies that don't nap without being held? What about mothers with more than one child? If the answer for everybody was as simple as just catching up on missed sleep during the day then there would be a lot less exhausted mothers on existence.

I remember when my child was very little and my MIL asked me whether I was making sure my DH was getting enough sleep

Obviously if you are BF you have to do the majority of it. Otherwise, I don’t see why one person should suffer utter exhaustion while the other racks up 8 hours a night. Crazy stuff.

I'm with you OP. Even though I BF my son, he was only having the 10pm ish dream feed by about 4-5 months so all other wakings were just cuddles/ settling. And there were LOTS of those, he was and is a bad sleeper. My DH absolutely did his share. He also did all baths until I stopped BF, and we shared storytime/ bed routine from 6 months on (ie I fed baby then we took turns to read stories and settle in cot). Agree with pp that the bonus is now DS will accept comfort from either of us except rare occasions like illness when he still prefers mummy. Also as a couple we felt we shared everything and tiredness never became competitive.

I totally agree. We have twins, who didn't come out with coordinated sleep schedules, and I would have gone insane with the lack of sleep if I'd been doing all the wakings. DH took Fridays off work as annual leave and then he did Thursday, Friday and Saturday nights, I did Sunday-Wed. He still had an easier ride because on his nights he could have a lie in the next morning, but anyway it was enough to keep me more or less functioning (in the average night in the first 12 weeks or so you could expect maybe two or three windows of up to about an hour when they were both asleep). I remember my absolute bitch of a mother remarking that it was quite hard in my DH that he had to come in off a day's work and do the night feeds on a Thursday night, as if it was a piece of cake for me to do 4 nights and 4 days on the trot.

The point about the driving is an absolutely fair one. I didn't drive till the kids were 6 months old, it was the first time I trusted myself in the car.

And about bf versus ff - of course everyone should do as they want and hats off to bfers and so on, but I do feel there is something a little bit misogynist and dismissive of the difficulty of baby care about the way bf gets pushed to everyone regardless of circumstances. If you have one baby, no older children, and a lovely helpful healthy retired mother who comes in and takes the baby out for a walk for two hours in the morning and then comes in and gives your kitchen a clean, it's going to be a damned sight easier to bf than if you have none of those advantages, and I think if you take the decision to do FF to make use of what help a partner can give, that's a decision that should be respected.

I agree. This was what pushed my over the edge with PND. The chorus of both families telling me how I should do it all with a smile on my face when DD was feeding every 45mins at some points. I was broken and still recovering from a c section. Most nights i would get 4 hours of broken sleep. I still resent DH for his lack of help and we have had marriage counselling. I also have medical conditions made a lot worse by lack of sleep but apparently just by being on mat leave those no longer mattered. I am now back at work and earn the same as DH now I'm part time which has really helped the dynamic. Also spending time with other couples with a more even split helped DH see that the unhelped comments (mostly from MIL) were just outdated crap and DD is his baby to. I think dads who don't do night feeds miss out on a lot of bonding time.

@blackcat86
Thank you for sharing your experience as what you describe is exactly why I wanted to start this thread. Yes every family is different and some babies/children don't really wake enough in the night to cause a real problem, but when you have a bad sleeper and there is a strong undercurrent from society that the mother should do all the night wakings because she isn't at work then we start to stray into very damaging territory. Even on this thread, various posters have waded in saying that exhausted mothers could just choose not to drive , that sharing night wakings would just make two parents exhausted or that the mother on maternity leave can always catch up on sleep during the day. All of these posts have strongly implied that the mother should do all of the night wakings and I can see how a working father begins to believe that he is entitled to a full night's sleep irrspective of how exhausted his partner is. Equally, the mother has often been socialised to believe it's her responsibility to do all the night wakings and feel like she is a failure if she was to seek assistance from the father. It doesn't take a genius to see how the combination of all these things can lead to a mother becoming dangerously tired.

My DH never did a night feed and he has a beautiful relationship with his children

When DS1 was small he did all the night nappy changes and he lifted him into me when I was still recovering from the section.

After a while though there was just no need for him to be awake as well!

When DTs were tiny, as I said above, he was dealing with DS1 by night so whilst he didn't help with them at night he did share the load by being there for DS1.

I think it’s crap to say that one parent deserves sleep more than the other; sleep deprivation is so so cruel. You have to share the load in whatever way you can, survival of those early days is key.

In fact I think that sharing the load in all aspects of parenting is so important. Seems like in the initial scenario one parent shouldered all the responsibility.

Yes I agree it can be so important, but only if the person getting up thinks it so important. Every family and person is different.

I did all night feeds, I was breastfeeding and my DH had an hour drive to work and an hour home. It would have been absolutely pointless me waking him through the night as he couldn't feed my DS.

The woman in this story should be ashamed of herself for driving a car when her child is not correctly strapped in. She should have refused to drive if she was so tired, but then again she says "she didn't realise" she was so tired.

@Tigger001
Yes I agree it can be so important, but only if the person getting up thinks it so important. Every family and person is different
I'm not sure that it's a point of a principle for most women but more an issue that becomes more important as the sleep deprivation ramps up. I think if a mother finds it all very manageable on her own then this is perhaps more a reflection of how well her baby is actually sleeping than her character as such.

DH was working a 70+ hour week with lots of driving and odd hours and I was breastfeeding, I got up in the night. I agree each couple needs to do what works for them. Lone parents have no choice though, they are the ones I feel for in this regard.

OP yes I would never judge it in a detriment to their character if they needed two parents through the night. My son was up, as a lot of babies are, quite a lot through the night and only slept through at about 14months. I would never want my DH to be up when he had an hour drive on the motorway as I would not want him to cause an accident as this reckless women did.

Bf doesn’t stop you sharing the night wakings. Dh brought baby to me, then changed nappy and settled (or not, bad sleeper) dd1, in the early post section days. I didn’t move from my bed.

I sometimes went to bed early and left him with a bottle of expressed milk for the first night feed, once she was a bit older. He definitely did all the wakings when I night weaned - much more effective to have the parent without boobs there for that!

You don’t cause accidents on the motorway from getting up once in the night a couple of times a week. BF women don’t stay in the house all day and nap. They go out, do the shopping, the school run etc. I BF and worked full time, daily motorway run, on not a huge amount of sleep, and I was fine. Men can do this, too. It’s an excuse.

Surely it's only an excuse if they are trying to "get out" of doing it. I didn't want my DH doing it as it was pointless in our situation as he couldn't feed and I would wake on DS waking anyway, simply pointless in our situation to have both of us with broken sleep.

I agree too. When DCs were babies and even though I breastfed one of them, dh would still help to settle her down. Once feeding was established and she was only getting up once in night then I’d do it. On bad nights we’d share and we def shared for the other one who was bottle fed. This was more in first couple of months but it worked.

I think you have to find what works best for your situation. In our case it's not night wakings I care about as she doesn't usually wake more than once and I breastfeed so it's just a 10 min feed and back to bed, but she does sometimes wake early to start the day or we have the odd bad night where she is unsettled for whatever reason. On those occasions, my DP will get up at say 5 or 6 and take her downstairs and I can get back to sleep for two or three hours. This works better for us.

I agree. It is terrible for your mental health, even as a sahp, to be highly sleep deprived for any length of time. Even if a partner got up once a night it would allow the mum a few uninterrupted hours of sleep which can help massively with good mental health and the ability to cope during the day.
My DH always got up with ours unless he had something safety critical the following day.