To think that Labour will not be able to win a General Election with Corbyn as leader

[Question1001]

Here we are, looking at a Boris post truth Trump style of premiership and a no deal Brexit, yet the opposition is sitting on the fence on the latter, and run by someone who, while he might have his own fan base, is never going to win the country (as in UK) IMO.

For the greater good he should stand down IMO, and let someone else take over. Or we risk being ruled by a much more right wing Tory party for years to come, and the consequences of that don’t bear thinking about.

There were many left wingers who voted Leave, Zipee. You just don’t want to see it.

Yanbu

Well, clearly I don’t exist then. Nor do the others in my profession who also voted leave for social reasons.

What social reasons did you vote for?

And yes, voting to leave for left wing reasons when the campaign to leave was funded and run by the most right wing of all politicians wasn't good judgement.

I know there are many leftists who voted leave, usually the ones who voted for what they wanted in their head, rather than what was on the ballot and campaigned for.

LOL, and we were having such a polite discussion until I mentioned my vote.

I haven't been impolite to you.

I've asked you for your reasoning, and yes I can legitimately question why as left winger you voted to leave when the campaign was funded and run by people with an entirely different agenda to you.

What did you think was going to happen?

Oh and I certainly think that there were voters who voted leave because they would be better off, just like there were others that voted leave because it wouldn't really have much impact on their lives.

Zipee, if you did as much research as I did and worried about the vote as much as I did, then I applaud you.

Although I considered many things, my overriding concern was about the volume of immigration. Our population has risen too quickly in too short a time (for which I blame Tony Blair) and this has had a severe impact upon those at the bottom of the social pile, particularly in relation to housing and employment. This is not an anti-immigrant stance, but an anti-unlimited immigration stance. I have nothing but admiration for those who have moved here to better their own lives.

It’s all very well blaming the Tories (I’m not one, by the way) for not building more etc, but we are where we are. In any event, I think our eye should be on climate change in the world as a whole and our tiny islands in particular. We need to control our population and it is ridiculous telling people who are already here not to have children when our borders are fully open.

What did I think would happen? I had no idea. Did you? Did anybody? It was the worst possible referendum anyone could have run. I didn’t even know whether the vote would be acted on or not. All the research I did was unclear on that point. I did know that I wasn’t voting for either the status quo or change though. There was never going to be a continuation of what we had.

There you are, that’s my explanation.

And all the remain voters were voting with their social consciences?

Come on! Mumsnet is supposed to be left wing, but challenge the concept of private schools and the wealthy paying for their own care in old age and all hell let’s loose. There are many retainers on here who very much voted in their own interests.

Lets!

I voted remain entirely in my own self interest but at least I had the wit to understand what that was ...

I'd sooner Boris than Corbyn any day! I would very much welcome some sensible Labour opposition - someone like Yvette Cooper.

Well, TheAngryLlama, if you voted entirely in your own interests, that’s fine. Seeing, as I do, how the self interests of those at the top have impacted on those at the bottom, you might understand why I had the wit to vote otherwise.

I couldn't vote labour knowing it will result in a terrorist sympathiser becoming PM.

I researched the vote intensively.

So lets rebut some of your points:

"Our population has risen too quickly in too short a time."

It increased at a slightly faster rate post 2004 than in the preceding 10 years, but not at all "too fast".

"This has had a severe impact upon those at the bottom of the social pile, particularly in relation to housing and employment"

Not at all.

The ONS data on house prices shows that ALL immigration has increases prices by 20 percent over 25 years, but house prices over all have risen by 320 percent, so immigration has caused a 0.8 PA increase whilst other factors have caused a 12 percent PA increase.

The impact on wages of immigration is "infinitesimally small" according to the authors of the Bank of England study, and is worked out at the equivalent impact to now of about £5.60 a week difference. The increased tax threshold over this time gives the lowest paid have extra £115.38 p/w than they did in 2004.

There is no evidence that EU migrants have any impact on employment.

In fact all the evidence shows that the fall out from the 2008 crash and austerity have had the worst impact on the poorest.

But you voted with the advocates of that.

So no I don't think you researched thoroughly.

Ahh yes, the Bank of England, that bastion of social equality.

I researched extensively. Why s it so difficult for some remainers to accept that others also did their research, balanced everything they read and heard, took the interests of others into account and reached a different decision.

You said you were being polite. Have I questioned whether you carried out sufficient research?

I didn't research intensively. I looked at the assorted chancers, charlatans, conmen and spivs flogging Brexit and asked myself if I would trust any of them under any other circumstances. The answer was No, not a hope in hell, so I voted Remain.

I didn't research intensively. I looked at the assorted chancers, charlatans, conmen and spivs flogging Brexit and asked myself if I would trust any of them under any other circumstances. The answer was No, not a hope in hell, so I voted Remain.

TIL Cameron, Osborne and all multi nationals are now in vogue.

The anti NeoLib agenda has been quietly dropped after the referendum, it's difficult to say you are anti-neolib and be pro-eu

Your lack of understanding about the Bank of England study shows you didn't research extensivley.

Sorry.

Which conclusive research showed the impact on wages and housing for you?

Whilst Cameron backed remain so did the vast majority of the Labour party.

The poorest will be far worse off after Brexit.

Its also funny how the neo liberals paint tge EU as socialist, and the socialist paint it as neo nliberal.

Its that classic thing actually, with having fairly centerist socially democratic policies.

Lurker, I believe that is an over simplified distortion but thanks anyway.

Its actually quite possible to be against the most extreme neonliberals and still be pro EU.

Which is of course why the most neoliberal of politicians are anti EU.

I’m out. School run calls.

Please, please, please can we not turn this into another bloody Brexit thread?

I agree about it not being a brexit thread.

Problem is that Brexit is the major political issue of our time.