To think that Labour will not be able to win a General Election with Corbyn as leader

[Question1001]

Here we are, looking at a Boris post truth Trump style of premiership and a no deal Brexit, yet the opposition is sitting on the fence on the latter, and run by someone who, while he might have his own fan base, is never going to win the country (as in UK) IMO.

For the greater good he should stand down IMO, and let someone else take over. Or we risk being ruled by a much more right wing Tory party for years to come, and the consequences of that don’t bear thinking about.

Totally agree. I was always a labour voter but won’t vote for them with him in charge.

Agree. I've voted Labour all my life but no more with JC in charge. Lib Dems will get my vote.

I will never vote Tory - but I don't trust Jeremy as a leader, I don't "get" him - he seems contrary for the sake of it. We need a new labour leader to win the next election, we really can't allow this shower of bastards to continue to screw the poor.

Corybn is so slippery, speaking softly about peaceful politics whilst momentum smash the labour leaders opposition windows.

I find him chillingly dangerous.

Slippery, evasive, has let things fester in labour Etc.

As a socialist, I really love the policies that he has brought in, that Labour's last manifesto was sensibly costed out, and that it genuinely supports the most important things that make everyday life better and easier and healthier: the NHS, libraries, schools, decent housing, open spaces and the environment etc.

But I am so disappointed in Corbyn's attitude to the press. Yes, they were going to hound him immediately - and did - but his lack of communication skills means that he's not getting across the actual values of Labour, and so many people don't bother to read manifestos or party policies, they just go by what's in the news.

I'm also disappointed by his attitude to Brexit. I think he's playing a long game, but it's so hard to wait for a second referendum when all the other options are terrible. He's allowing the Conservatives to show their true colours, but he's not showing all the positives that could come from a more supportive, more socialist society (that's really moderate by other European countries' standards of socialism).

I do still have a hope that Labour can win. He's dragged them back to being moderately left from their previously middle-right position. I just hope whoever comes next sticks with that. We really need a swing against the appalling cuts from years of the Tories, make the country hopeful and worth living in again.

I have to reluctantly agree. BUT not because I think he is a particularly poor leader but because the msm and tory party have done an absolutely sterling job on stitching him up!

Ask yourself - if they REALLY thought he was so ineffectual why they fear him so much?

"Preferably one not riddled with anti semitism and capable of grasping the concept of biological sex." - the tories have FAR bigger issues with racism INCLUDING anti-semitism, they have (albeit very quietly) been advancing the aims of TRA's and self identification to the detriment of women - and they currently have far more power to do so. Do you really think the police would be acting as they are against supposedly transphobic anti self ID campaigners if they didn't think they had the support of govt?!

"I can't vote Labour because Corbyn will drag us down into recession" you seriously think that the tories are doing a good job with the economy?!!!!

Many many experts have said they've made a complete balls up of it!

"Corbyn and he has some really worrying left wing policies to do with inheritance tax and school fees" he's a traditional labour person OF COURSE he's going to have a left wing perspective! I'd like to know exactly which policies you're referring to?

"We need a new Labour/ Blair type to sort out the mess and unite the country." Dreadful idea! Many of the worst problems we're dealing with are due to the worst policies of thatcher and Blair! He never hid his admiration for thatcher, he was NEVER a true labour person or socialist. Fact is we now have had a Tory govt in some shape or form for 40 years - and look at the mess we're in!

@maximusheadroom - well said!

"Trouble is, the minute Corbyn steps down the MSM will simply start attacking his replacement.

How people can't see it I don't know." I know - seems glaringly bloody obvious to me!

Why people believe newspapers and tv news broadcasts funded by tory supporters who do their damnedest to pay as little tax as possible, barely reside in the uk if at all, are incredibly privately wealthy and have no clue about real life for ordinary families let alone the poorest and most disadvantaged in society, who have a vested interest in keeping the tories in... I will never understand!

@pianotuner567 labour voter since when? Same question to the rest who've said they previously were usually labour voters?

JQbased I do agree we need a better system than a 2 party one. But when you say labour abandoned the working class when are you meaning?

"The traditional argument against PR is that it results in weak government but we ended up with that anyway after the last GE." Agree on this. And Theresa May was hardly a "strong leader"!

No - more Tory rule bloody terrifies me especially if it's people like Boris who would take great pleasure in treading down the poor, sick and disabled even more than has already happened, who would inflame racial tensions and blame everyone else, who would sellout to the most vile regimes for a fast buck... Are you REALLY saying that's better than Corbyn?!

Agree

He’s up there with Michael Foot and Vince Cable, as the worst leaders of the opposition in living memory.

If Labour had a David Miliband as leader & the Liberals has someone, who was less odious than the current leader, the Conservatives would be polling 5% in my opinion

I agree, and if he really cared about his country and his party he would stand down; but nope, his self interest comes first, so despite trying to prove he isn't, he is just like the rest.

I'd advise anyone ranting about antisemtism in the Labour party to look at the Tories issues with it too. We currently have a leadership candidate that has had meetings with white supremacist Bannon, whose website is the spreader of the largest amount of antisemitic tropes around, and who supported the Charlottesville march where the chants were "blood and soil" and "jews will not replace us". There are many more instances, including the tories alliances witg antisemtic parties in the EU parliament, but they don't recieve the same attention, or level of criticism.

Ask yourself why.

The hyperbolic nonsense about Labour policies is proved to be so because they are very much in line with other EU and OECD countries. The overton window has shifted so far to the right in the UK where even the policies of centre right parties in other countries is derided as far left .

And yet people will post nonsense here, attacking Corbyn, forgetting the media abuse of Foot ( it wasn't a donkey jacket), Kinnock, Brown and Miliband.

They will also demonstrate a clear lack or critical thinking.

But as you were.

Isn't that exactly what people were saying last time when they did far far better than expected and denied the Tories the chrushing majority they were expecting?

Yes I was thinking this, but they need to win.

It is not Corbyn’s policies, but his massive IMO lack of charisma.

And his stance on the EU .

I’m a conservative voter but would vote Labour to stop Brexit and hopefully sort the current lot who are useless. But I can’t because Corbyn and he has some really worrying left wing policies

You'd vote Labour but can't because they have left wing policies? Erm...

The British press has done a great job of making Corbyn out to be useless and dangerous.

It's a shame so much of the British public is so easily influenced by a right-wing tory supporting propagandist press.

He's a politician. He's not perfect. But he has good policies and believes in socialism. I live in France and here Corbyn would be considered slightly left of centre (and socialism is something to support).

As an outsider looking in it appears that the lefty British public is being gaslighted by the press and the long arm of Tory / Eton / right-wing capitalists and business influence to think that Corbyn can't and shouldn't win an election.

And he probably won't. And you will all have to put up with the really dangerous, corrupt and self-serving people in our political system - those at the top of the Tory party.

It's kind of fascinating to witness but breaks my heart.

@Zipee

Yes. Precisely. Especially what you say about the shifting of the Overton window.

I find him chillingly dangerous

Can you elaborate on this?

I agree.

He’s a completely useless leader of the opposition, why would he be a good prime minister? He’s opposing the most incompetent government of modern times, constantly presented with open goal after open goal and persistently fails to get the ball anywhere near it.

The level of anti semitism is frankly appalling and the Labour Party doesn’t get a free pass because the Tories are just as bad. It’s not a race to the bottom, I want the party I’ve voted for since I was able to vote to be better than this.

YANBU. I'm amazed there was no talk of him going after the disastrous EU elections. He is part of the problem not the solution. Labour could easily have won a GE with a half decent centrist leader. However, I fear the damage is done and not easily reversed now.
Libdems all the way for me now. I think with Jo Swinson or Ed Davey they'll become the main opposition party and Labour will get marginalised. JC was relying on the youth vote, but he has alienated them now with his pro Brexit stance imo and not tackling the anti semitic issue in the party. I would never vote for him.

This line that Corbyn is being silenced by the establishment because he is so popular and such a threat is bollocks

I am life long Labour voter, was a member, both sets of grandparents met in the party and I won’t vote for him.

He is a pretty dim, mulish man absolutely out if his depth and he is chucking the country under a bus for his socialism in one state dream

That said I wouldn’t rule out a hung parliament with Corbyn in by s couple of seats as I do think that the cruelty of austerity is becoming more obvious

I think things have moved on significantly since 2017. May tried to make it into an election about Brexit but it turned into an election on far more wide ranging issues which to be fair was down to Corbyn to a large extent . I was very dubious about Corbyn as were a fair few of my friends but after listening we did change our minds a fair bit.

However so much has happened since then I think that moment has passed and he would be damaging to Labour if they went into next election with him as leader and I think people would vote this time on Brexit lines than they did in 2017.

I will absolutely not vote for Labour with Corbyn as leader - I live in a swing seat, which changed from Con to Lab in the snap election. It's frustrating, as I'm pretty much throwing my vote away by voting Lib Dem, but I can't in good conscious vote for either of the main parties at the moment.

www.google.com/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/voices/jeremy-corbyn-media-bias-labour-mainstream-press-lse-study-misrepresentation-we-cant-ignore-bias-a7144381.html%3famp

The Independent newspaper report on an investigation by the LSE into media bias in the representation (and misrepresentation) of Corbyn in the British press and the undemocratic and problematic nature of that reporting and the influence it has on the general public.

www.lse.ac.uk/media-and-communications/research/research-projects/representations-of-jeremy-corbyn

Link to an overview of the LSE investigation which contains a link to the full report.

It's interesting reading for anyone who cares about democracy.

I think we can all see that there is a currently a concerning shift to the right in European and American politics. Well, it's happening in the UK too and the hatchet job on Corbyn is part of that.

You see the influence of the press all the time on threads on MN. Posters regurgitating stuff they've picked up from the press but there is never much substance to it.

IMO Corbyn comes across as surly and superior a lot of the time. I know he has the right wing press out to get him, but part of his admittedly hard job is to find a way round that. I don’t think he manages to do that. He always seems to be scuttling off somewhere, or whispering in a corner. He needs to inspire confidence with more than just his followers. And the fact that he is like Jesus to their disciples is also unpleasant.

None of this is to detract from how awful the Tories are - that’s a given and I have never and will never vote for them.

Really I too would like PR and would vote Lib Dem, depending on what their current policies on things like austerity are, but they are not in a position to be in power at the moment so... My constituency is firmly Labour at the moment (though interestingly was Lib Dem two elections ago) so I can safely vote Lib Dem without fear of letting a Tory MP in, but that’s the extent of the power I have as a voter.

We all know the right wing press guns for the Labour leader

It’s shit

But the party needs to recognise they need a leader who can deflect it and handle it. That’s not Corbyn