To think that Labour will not be able to win a General Election with Corbyn as leader

[Question1001]

Here we are, looking at a Boris post truth Trump style of premiership and a no deal Brexit, yet the opposition is sitting on the fence on the latter, and run by someone who, while he might have his own fan base, is never going to win the country (as in UK) IMO.

For the greater good he should stand down IMO, and let someone else take over. Or we risk being ruled by a much more right wing Tory party for years to come, and the consequences of that don’t bear thinking about.

But birdsdestiny, what exactly do you want Corbyn to do when you say be an effective leader of the opposition?

Many of the people who voted for his party also voted for brexit. As you say, he himself holds some eurosceptic views.

Do you want him to lie about what he thinks or what the electorate has voted for? I honestly don't understand what you want.

I don't think brexit would have rolled out a different way under any other leader of the opposition. No one was going to commit the political suicide of going against the infamous "will of the people".

My mum's a lifelong Labour voter, member, supporter and volunteer. She works hard in campaigns and knows a lot of people in the party. I was talking to her on the phone the other day and she said to me people won't vote for Corbyn as he is unelectable is a self-fulfilling prophecy propagated by the media. I'm inclined to agree but I'm open to being persuaded otherwise.

It is clear that labour can't win with Corbyn. Look at what the Tories have done to the country. A couple of months ago there was talk of bringing in martial law. The country is hopelessly broken in two. The list is endless of the Tory fuck ups. Yet there are still people saying they can't vote labour - the only strong opposition.

Personally I reckon he'd do an okay job. The bar being really low after this disaster of the tories for nearly 10 years.

You can argue in circles for ages why he is unelectable as a leader, but it won't change the fact that not enough will vote for labour with him in charge.

Which brings me to another problem. Even if he did get in, the press would give him an absolutely shit time that it'd appear that all he did was crap. The press is so right wing there is no hope for a fair democracy in the UK.

BTW I have emigrated.

Motheroffourdragons - an alternative view of Kate Hoey, fresh off the press - www.newstatesman.com/politics/staggers/2019/06/why-labour-needs-more-mps-kate-hoey

My working assumption is that the opinions of anyone who starts burbling about “MSM” can be discounted more or less immediately.
Only a rule of thumb but it’s never failed me before, and it isn’t today.

Well currently what I think he should do is nail his colours to the mast , he has lost the remain vote and is loosing the Brexit side as well. It's a strategy that has led to him haemoraging voted against one of the worst governments I can remember. I also disagree with your premise that Brexit would have happened under any leader, there is not a chance it would have happened under Blair or Brown, whatever you may think of them.

By that I mean with them as leaders of the opposition it would either have never got to a referendum or remain would have won. Brown did an excellent campaign to stop Scotland leaving the uk, campaigns can change the results of referendums, so yes I believe a different leader would have changed the result.

The biggest problem with the referendum campaign wasn't anything to do with Corbyn, it was Cameron refusing to do "blue on blue" debates or to attack the leaders of the official leave campaign.

About 70% of Conservative voters voted to leave, 65% of Labour voters to remain.

Who failed?

All the talk of needing a centrist Labour leader.

We had one in 2015.

He lost badly.

Corbyn won a bigger share of the vote than Miliband or Brown.

I totally agree. I wouldn't vote Conservative with Johnson in charge, and would certainly not vote Labour with Corbyn and his cronies at the helm.

All the decent people jumped ship for the Change party which doesn't seem to have come to much.

Point taken, Motheroffourdragons.

Can I ask you where are those statistics are from, Zipee?

Grammar fail!

Op, I agree. Corbyn needs to go.

As far as I'm aware they are from Yougov.

A quick check shows I'm wrong about the Tory stats. It was 61% of Tories voted leave.

Why the fuck should he stand down if he was democratically elected and is really popular with party nembers???

Ok Zipee - I haven’t been able to find those stats but they just don’t sound right to me. They might be right for London Labour voters, but not those “up North”, otherwise those areas would have been sound remain areas.

Lacerbiatta, because he needs to be ELECTABLE, not just by his party but across the board. And he isn't which leaves a large part of the electorate - Labour voters - with nowhere to go. If he just wants to entertain those supporters in his party, he should leave the stage with them and leave it free for a vote gatherer.

yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2016/06/27/how-britain-voted

Simple stats.

The "up north" issue is different. Labour constituencies often voted with more than 50% of the vote to leave, however, this is a two horse race, how many MP's hold over 50% of the vote in their area?

Its wrong to equate constituencies voting leave, with Labour voters. If in a Labour stronghold like Durham the Labour MP only got 47% of the vote in 2015. Remain won 42% of the vote in 2016.

That question sums it up actually. The Labour party aren't really bothered about winning elections.

So when they took seats back from the Tories last time they weren't about winning elections?

How come the Tories didn't win their 70 seat majority as predicted?

Its funny this thread appeared this morning when the Tory votes were going on.

Agree I do think he needs to go. It’s really time for a change.

I’m a life long labour voter but voted Lib Dem recently.

DH made me laugh earlier-he said Rory Stewart has been described as the best leader the Lib Dems have never had. He seems quite likeable.

YANBU

I don’t understand your point about Durham as those statistics don’t appear to contradict what I said about northern labour voters and leave.

I don’t trust the accuracy of polls like that in any event. I suspect that stats on the referendum are skewed by that fact that many leave voters who are highly educated would not disclose their vote to anyone. I was a reluctant “Lexiteer” - I wouldn’t be telling anyone due to the vitriol against leave voters that was very much in place before and after the vote. I was shouted at twice in the days following the vote and that was enough for me. Who needs that sort of thing?

You voted for a project funded by billionaires, cam[campaigned for by the most neo liberal politicians and the ultra right wing as a left winger?

Another example of Brexit being all things to all people.

The point about Durham was that the MP didn't hold a majority of over 50%, most constiuent MP's don't, so you are confusing a Labour vote with a constituent one.

Frankly in Durham, if you got all of the Tory and UKIP voters, along with a small percentage of Labour voters you come up with the winning majority.

"the fact that many leave voters who are highly educated would not disclose their vote to anyone"

The mythical highly educated leave voter who researched all the options and decided the country would be better off.

Yet still can't justify their reasoning.

Like you can't as a "lexiteer".