To think my daughter was denied a basic right (an education) and that we've been treated like shit?

[dobrovnikdreams]

She spent Year 7 in a school in our home town where she was happy with friends. Towards the end of Year 7 due to unforseen circumstances (family related, won't get into it as irrelevant) we had to move to Wales and we did so through a council house swap through someone who wanted our city. She spent Year 8 and half of year 9 in a Welsh school where she got a place instantly. She didn't settle very well as friendship groups were already established and she didn't really fit in (we're talking small town Wales where everybody knows everybody and speaks Welsh etc) so she struggled. Midway through Year 9 she ended up refusing to go point blank. She had a meltdown one night and begged to go back to England saying she wouldn't go to school unless we moved. The family issues had settled down by this point and a month prior to DD's meltdown I'd put our house back on the council swap site wanting to move back to our old area but hadn't had any offers.

I wanted to move back to England before Year 10 started because of GCSE's beginning etc so got very anxious by the time May rolled round and we still hadn't got anyone wanting to swap from my hometown to Wales. My worries were rubbing off on DD so I bit the bullet and ended up private renting us a 2 bed flat in our old general area (but was a few miles away in a different local authority as couldn't afford to rent in home local LA ) as we were both very homesick and DD wanted to get back to her old school ASAP. This crippled us financially but was necessary as both needed to move back home. Once we'd settled into the flat I contacted DD's old school only to get told they were full and that we would be put on a waiting list but were warned we had no chance due to different LA and wrong postcode. We appealed and got rejected. By this point it was late July and all the schools were shut and I couldn't apply anywhere.

Year 10 started and I applied to the nearest school in my LA. Got told "We don't accept place in Year 10 unless the child is in care." Appealed, failed. Applied for 2 more in my LA and got told the same. Failed appeal for both. In appeal they all used the fact that DD refused to attend the Wales school as an excuse for not taking her. After being rejected by the 3 nearest schools in the LA I applied to 3 others which were still in the LA but right at the far end and all of them had the attiude of "Why on earth have you applied here when you live 11 miles away? It's too far." Even more frustrating is that after each school rejected us they'd say "Apply to so and so they'll probably have her" and I got the feeling they didn't believe me when I replied that we'd already been rejected by "so and so" and every other in the fucking area. Because all the appeals took so long(you get a date something like 2 months after appealing) soon enough it was nearing the end of Year 10! DD was extremely depressed. No friends or social life due to lack of school and worrying about her future. It was heartbreaking.

As Year 11 started I applied to each school again hoping they'd think "A year later and she's still not got a school place yet? We are now obliged to give her one." bur half the schools said no and the other half didn't bother getting back to me. DD was devastated. She told me "Mum, I just want to go to school and be normal. Why am I being treated like some kind of criminal? I've done nothing wrong." Wow, a teenager wants to go to school and get an education, how awful! I ended up in actual tears writing a letter to my LA and another begging them (literally begging) one of them to give my DD a place somewhere as her mental health was in dire straights. Of course they both said "If her menral health is in a bad place then focus on getting her into CAMHS rather than school for now."

So, here we are. End of Year 11. DD has no friends, no social life and no GCSE's. Luckily she got into college on a Childcare course (was only offered foundation level which is fair enough, it's not the college's fault) so I'm hoping she will begin to feel she has a purpose and make friends and her life will improve. But we are both still so so angry about how we were treated. Our area is well known for having good schools (people move round here from all over for the schools) and it being difficult to get a place after Year 7 but we applied to 6 bloody schools (2 of which were the worst schools in the area, we were desperate so weren't picky) and none of them gave a shit. Yet I've heard cases of scrotes getting thrown out for stabbing someone, they do a month in young offenders then get a place at a different school immedietely :(

The Local Authority have a legal duty to provide the OP's daughter with a full time suitable education. They have failed to do this.
Even if the OP could have done more (in terms of pushing them, threatening legal action etc) local authorities put lots of children at risk by having to be 'threatened' in order that they provide what they are legally obliged to provide.

Wow I'm just amazed someone else uses the word 'scrotes' 😁

Feel sorry for your DD though. But remember; school isn't everything, she can get qualifications from college. And tell her, I'm 23 and don't have any friends from school, all my friends were made after school from jobs. And I'm pretty happy with that now.

Most kids in schools are scrotes!! Bitchy bullies.

Keep your head up. This isn't your fault and I'm sure your DD won't suffer from this xxx

It sounds like she didn't even apply properly. You don't go to individual schools; you apply to the local authority. Even if they messed it up for year 10 (and for some reason she didn't contact her MP) then when it came to year 11, she would have applied like every other family; through the L.A. with your 3 choices and then they allocate a space, but it sounds like she didn't do that and just waited until the school year and then asked all the schools again. You can't blame the L.A. when the parent doesn't actually apply for a school.

Not sure what all the stuff about the education office is because surely she'd have evidence of being rejected, and they would sort something out. I just don't understand how someone can sit on the ass for 2 years instead of going to their MP and then make themselves a nuisamce at the council offices until something was done.

I think I remember the original threads and there were good reasons for the move (think escaping toxic family)

I'm sorry you were treated that way, maybe try and get legal advice

Yes your dd absolutely must do gcse’s now.
She’s doing the childcare thing which is great but her life choices will be severely limited later in life if she doesn’t have them. The government chuck everything (bar school places in your case!!) at getting kids educated until 21ish. After that they do not want to know, so she needs to really really take advantage of that.
A few of my school friends did a levels at night, I wish I had done that too. I didn’t have the foresight to realise it, once you have kids and rent etc it’s near impossible to return to education.

As part of her foundation childcare course is your DD doing her english and maths gcse's? If not ask the college can they add those in. By law if your DD hasn't got these GCSE's the college should be offering her these (or at least a level 2 course in them)
If your DD ever wants to do a myriad of other careers she will need at least these GCSE's at C or above so these two are well worth getting.

The government offer free education up to age 19 so it would be worth finding out if the college will keep her for 3 years so she can do a foundation course and then a 2 year level 3 course, such as A levels or Btec (level3).

Why are people advising taking legal advice now? DD is now starting college.

OP focus on trying to get your DD to focus on college, support her as much as can for however long it takes for her to get some qualifications then maybe look at an apprenticeship or similar?

In hindsight the move to neighbouring authority prevented her going back to her old school. They were full,you didn’t live in their LA.

Looking forward, I hope you are actively working with the college to find ways to help your DD catch up? She's going to need extra support, I imagine you'll have to ask/fight for it rather than passively hope it'll happen
Good luck.

When we moved areas a couple of years back I phoned around the schools to see which had spaces in the relevant year groups for my kids. It was only when we could be reasonably sure everyone would be offered a place that we put a deposit down on a rental property in the new area and put the school applications in very soon after that. No way would I have agreed to a move without knowing if a school place would be available for each of my kids.

I hope your dd enjoys college and is able to get a few GCSEs while she's there. As other posters have said it will create more opportunities for her in the future

If a school is full, it's full. There's a maximum amount of places per year, and a maximum amount of places per school, we actually aren't legally allowed to go over that. I'm not sure what you expected them to do. You can't just move home and expect a place in a school. If the 6 closest are full then you have to try the next 6 and so on. Half way through education it's very unlikely schools are going to have empty places sitting there waiting. Sad your daughter had to go through this but you have to accept that moving around cause this. It's common for children to be on a waiting list for well over a year for a mid year transfer, usually they commute back to the previous school while waiting for a place to open, you should have applied, stayed in wales, waited for the place and then moved once a place was open, not your fault for not knowing that but you should have made enquiries about what was possible before moving, you can't just expect a place.

I'm sorry but I think this is on you more than the la.

Whilst there was probably a path that the OP could have taken which would not have resulted in the mess, I do think posters here are making a lot of assumptions based on what they think THEY would do.

Don't assume that everybody has the confidence and resilience to "fight the system" and "demand the things they are entitled to". Lots of people just don't know where or how to start. And it shouldn't be necessary. The EWO who visited the OP should have been empowered to actually help the OP to identify a school which could provide a place and to correctly apply for that place. What is the point of them otherwise?

However, OP, your daughter has been let down by the circumstances but her life has really not been ruined. There is every opportunity for her to rejoin a perfectly normal educational route. I would assume her the college who are providing her childcare course are also going to give her the chance to do GCSEs in maths and english? If this hasn't been arranged then go in and talk to them about how to arrange it. Once she has those and her childcare qualification she should be set to go. Just because most people take their exams at 16 doesn't mean it is the only time you can do it - they are always there and you can do them at 21, 30, 60....

To be fair to the OP not all LAs coordinate In Year Admissions in England now. That duty went in about 2014, Birmingham and Trafford are 2 of many who no longer do it but they do still have a duty to place a child. However it is a HUGE safeguarding issue as it means these LAs have little idea of the number of children out of education in their areas.
I place year 10 and 11 children in schools every week. Some might be harder to place than others but they always get a place within a month or so of applying. This is for a massive LA with 30 high schools and a shortage of places. It can be done even without pressure from parents although they don't always like the school they are offered.

Didn't you involve your local MP? They should be able to do something now, in regards to your DD taking her GCSEs at least. She can't not have any GCSEs! I'm actually shocked at this story.

I think u need to take a much bigger level of responsibility than ur currently taking. Yes, the LA have fucked up massively, but there has to be another side to this that ur not saying. Year 10 in year admission is definitely allowed....whoever told you it isn't, has their facts wrong. However the onus was on you to push and fight on behalf of your DD. Hindsight is a wonderful thing, but you have failed your daughter...with the help of the LA....but mainly you

i'm pretty sure local authorities have a legal duty to provide every child with a school place. Education is a basic human right enshrined in many different pieces of legislation. If all schools are full to capacity they would need to work with them to accomodate demand. Freedom of movement is another basic human right and local authorities are breaking the law if they penalise someone for excercising it. I think laws relating to the treatment of the traveller community are probably relevant here. This group would quite often have children moving schools at odd times and they would not necessarily fall under the category of 'looked after' children either.

I haven't read the full thread but I don't see any of the Mumsnet admissions experts here. Apologies if someone is here but I haven't noticed.

Got told "We don't accept place in Year 10 unless the child is in care."

That sounds like a statement of the current position, not a statement of policy. If a school is full in any year it is still generally required to admit looked after and formerly looked after pupils. So, if the school was full in Y10, it is quite right that it would only take children in care or children who had previously been in care. However, if a place became available due to someone leaving it must be offered to anyone who applies.

In appeal they all used the fact that DD refused to attend the Wales school as an excuse for not taking her

I am surprised. Under the Admissions Code a school may not use a pupil's previous attendance, behaviour or attitude when deciding whether or not to admit unless the child has been permanently excluded twice within the last two years. Any appeal panel should be aware of this. At the very least I would expect a panel faced with an argument like this to be less inclined to give the school the benefit of any doubt. The failure of the appeal should have been despite the school making that argument, not because of it.

I applied to 3 others which were still in the LA but right at the far end and all of them had the attitude of "Why on earth have you applied here when you live 11 miles away? It's too far."

Schools in England cannot refuse a place just because you live too far away. If they have a place available it must be offered.

I'm surprised you only applied to one school at a time. If the council tell you to apply direct to schools you can apply to as many as you want at the same time. Have you checked that the council requires you to apply direct to schools? Some councils do, others handle applications for places themselves.

The LA would say "We have to look for a place for you but schools have the final say."

Complain to the Local Government Ombudsman. The LA can get the Secretary of State to direct an academy to admit a child. They are not powerless. This response is simply an abdication of responsibility.

People move, that’s normal. People don’t always plan ahead and get a school place in advance, also normal.

But in this case you then went on to not make appropriate efforts to understand the admissions system or to ensure your daughter received an education at home. Presumably there are circumstances which make it difficult for you to do things that other parents regard as normal parenting. Do you have support?

I do have some sympathy OP< it can be tricky.

We moved to England mid-school year, and wanted a school place before we committed to our move.

We wrote tot he LEA< who said they'd deal with us only once we'd moved in. We approached schools individually and were extremely lucky to find a nice school where the head offered us a place on the proviso we'd move into the catchment area.

Until then, it was a bit Catch22!

But I do think you could have done more research, eg you could have found out that applying (and appealing) to an LEA of an area you do not live is futile, a waste of time.

Also, what did your daughter DO for 2 years? I imagine you work during the day, but could you not have helped her with her education between, say, 6pm and 10pm?

There are so many good resources online, and home-ed communities, I cannot quite believe you passively waited for 2 years without taking matters in your own hands?

I guess your working hours may be different from what I assume, but did you have no hours to spend with your DD (on education) at all?

I think that, although OP’s post is lengthy, there may still be quite a bit missing.

Two years out of formal education would ring alarm bells surely, if she was ever out and about during term time school hours.

I would have bought that most people would be pestering the LA constantly for a resolution of some sort during that time.

There must have been some positive contact with the authorities, since her daughter now has a place at college and a chance to acquire the qualifications she has missed out on.

I’m glad that prh47bridge has been able to give an informed opinion as to the requirements and legalities involved, because it’s easy to think that the authorities have done nothing to help. We don’t and can’t know what has gone on over time.

It’s a difficult situation and I hope that the OP’s daughter has a positive experience at college.

Got told "We don't accept place in Year 10 unless the child is in care."

I think this means that LAC are at the top of the criteria, which is certainly the case for most schools. If the school is full - which it must have been to not get a place - they may have to accept a LAC but anyone else on the waiting list has little chance, unfortunately. A bit misleading, to say that is a blanket ban on anyone moving in year 10 though!

Don't all Welsh schools have to teach Welsh? That bit shouldn't have come as a surprise. Also, as your DD was out of school for at least half a year in Wales by the sound of it, I think there is a bit more to it than you've said about that (not that you have to go into details).

It is a shame that she was out of education for so long, yes.

Op, can your dd sit her GCSEs at college?

It definitely was a mess all the way around.
What did she do those 2 years?

It's good she is in a college course and having a chance to learn and make new friends.

As others have said make sure she gets Maths, Science, and English. It's so very important.

Also, I would encourage her to do something else besides childcare when you can, as she'll be stuck in poverty in a very low paying career. Women are desperately needed in STEM careers.

TBH the only properly successful home education cases I have seen were those were the parent doing the teaching was highly educated or formerly involved in education, were there is a very strong drive and creativity to keep the learning interesting and in schedule, which again it is difficult to establish and keep to if you have a lot of other stressors like family problems or financial worries.

This may be all you've seen but it's just offensive to all the HEing working class families, often with poor education themselves, who have to fight this constant stereotype alongside breaking their backs while putting their children's needs first/equal, who stay focused on them, while struggling with work, money, housing, courts, health, and far worse.

It also continues the myth of HE equals the parent teaches what they know, pouring it into an 'empty' child, and is therefore reliant on their own education to do it, along with the idea that a lack of parental education equals an automatic lack of imagination, drive, creativity and aspiration.

So many without much education or having stable circumstances, have still facilitated a decent education while fighting all sorts of other battles and circumstances, and seen their kids through both sets of exams and quite a few into university.

Good HE and info around it has never been more easily attainable thanks to the internet.

dobrovnikdreams she's been let down badly by everyone.
I don't want to pile in on you, you just need to recognize you too owe her, and do all you can now.

Regardless of how you got here, you need to be urgently talking to educational advice charities starting with about if an education allowance has been claimed for her and kept by someone.
You also need to get your MP (it'll actually be a councilor) helping you, and anyone else with any power you can find.

Always chase the money. Find the funding, it can still be gone after and potentially used to secure her a place (now or deferred) on internet courses to get her GCSE's.

The situations complicated by Wales being involved, but you need to get help and find out where the budget went and go after it.

You need to be kicking up a hell of a stink with the LA even if it means taking it on the chin for failing to kick off earlier. You're going to get eye rolled at a lot for all this, suck it up and turn it back on them to help her.

She was entitled to two years of education that she hasn't had, and someone's got the money that should have paid for it. Get help to go after the funding - you need to be a terrier with a bone over it, until it becomes easier and cheaper to give it up than deal with you.

Failure to continue to act now is likely to leave her poorly educated for her future.

This is awful.

My son had a similar hard time and I ended up putting him in a fee paying school for years 9-10-11.

Almost bankrupted us and i’m not expecting to be able to afford a family holiday until he is 35 😂