To think men shouldn’t come to a breastfeeding support group?

[Sexnotgender]

It’s a group SOLELY for breastfeeding support.

I know I’m probably being a grump but a man there totally changes the dynamic.

Baby was 5 months old so not a newborn with an overwhelmed mum which I would kind of understand.

Dons tin hat...

Women have the right to ask for same sex health providers, so that’s straight forward

Again, very rural area with a lack of health care workers. If a male is the only person available, which often is the case here, then that's the only choice.

Bluerussian she does need a carer with her, but her need for a male carer conflicts with other women's need for a single sex space in specific situations.

Therefore a solution/ accommodation other than allowing a man into a women only space and sod the needs of women who cannot access services because of his presence needs to be offered. Two groups, one with partners/ supporters and one single sex, or individual provision for those who need it, are the solution.

Not telling women to fuck off in shame if they can't bare their breasts in front of unknown men.

There was a thread a couple of days ago from someone who didn’t feel comfortable breastfeeding in front of men at a baby group. She was given a proper pasting but also told to go to breastfeeding specific groups which would only be for women where she’d feel more comfortable.

I like seeing dads at baby group but some groups are for parents and some are for mums, breastfeeding mums in this case, and that’s right.

My DH has been a huge supporter of feeding but neither of us would have wanted him to attend a group for women and if I’d needed to go to one when I couldn’t drive post EMCS he’d have stayed in the car.

You have no idea about other people's needs, issues, difficulties, MH etc that might make being exposed around strange men impossible for them

As a CSA survivor and someone with severe, complex-PTSD as well as physical disabilities, I'm pretty clued up on needs, issues and difficulties.

I'm also aware that sometimes men work in healthcare roles, or are registered carers.

Imagine how some of these men feel who attend

Good grief! Who gives a shit? It’s the women’s feelings that should be paramount, not theirs! Seriously, are you actually trying to centre men in a process that ONLY WOMEN can do?

As a CSA survivor and someone with severe, complex-PTSD as well as physical disabilities, I'm pretty clued up on needs, issues and difficulties.

Then I'm surprised you used the words you did, equating women staying with them being kind and decent.

This reminds me of the thread recently where a health care provider who organised post partum mental health care for women was being forced to make her budget include mental health care for men.

Utterly revolting how dismissive men can be to the biological challenges faced by women.

Sex is a protected characteristic for this reason.

The needs of the patients, who have just undergone a major medical trauma, come first, and their rights supersede those of men on this occasion.

and some of these patients need their partners.
We can go round in circle all day, until we put an end to communal wards, there will never be a solution.

Bloody hell, this thread has taken an unpleasant turn. Surely the answer, in an ideal world, would be services where women who need or want it, can get support in female only environments and those who need or want the support of a male partner can do so without impinging on others or being judged for doing so.

I fundamentally do NOT want a world where "men can get to fuck" when it comes to pregnancy, breastfeeding etc - for me that continues the persistence that anything relating to child rearing is exclusively female and long term plays a role in aspects of childcare such as shared parental leave having abysmal take-up. I also take exception to people using frankly unkind, patronising language like "oh diddums" about a woman saying she needed support from her husband, which apparently is in some way pathetic or unimportant, yet it's OK to want support from some random women? Why can't each be valid and deserve recognition without it turning into an attack?

Blue - I was describing the women in my own, personal experience, actually.

Sex is a protected characteristic for this reason.
I wish the hysterical "feminists" who bang on about equality, equal treatment and so on could remember that sometimes. Trying to deny them is seriously damaging to women.

And if one of them had got upset and left? Would that have made her unkind?

It's about centring the wants and needs of women.

That's really easy to do.

As a CSA survivor and someone with severe, complex-PTSD as well as physical disabilities, I'm pretty clued up on needs, issues and difficulties.

You’re demanding that women should centre your needs as a person with disabilities, while having absolutely no empathy for other women who may also have been victims of sexual abuse and suffer from PTSD. It sounds like you’re the one that is refusing to be inclusive.

patronising language like "oh diddums" about a woman saying she needed support from her husband, which apparently is in some way pathetic or unimportant
there are usually the same ones who complain about the lack of support they get from their ill-chosen partners, that would explain the bitterness.

It's pathetic to deny the need for support from partner, mother, sibling, friend to those who need it.

I fundamentally do NOT want a world where "men can get to fuck" when it comes to pregnancy, breastfeeding etc

While there’s no need for the language, it is and will always be the case that only women are pregnant and breastfeed and it’s unhelpful to pretend otherwise.

Why can't each be valid and deserve recognition without it turning into an attack

So how do we validate the needs of both, without women feeling uncomfortable?

Where did I say I had no empathy?

Presumably the women at these support groups will come across men in other situations? I'm unsure as to why this is any different? Who gets to choose whether the disabled person who physically can't feed their baby without their male carer gets to stay, or someone who may have been a victim of abuse? Is it Top Trumps?

onthis I have reservations about shared parental leave for this very reason. It's yet another tweak to the male-designed world of work that women have been shoehorned into - instead of understanding that parenting in the early years is not the same for mothers as fathers.

There’s often women with their breasts flopped out and a peer supporter either side examining her technique in the groups I go to. I think many women wouldn’t feel comfortable if there were also men there.

If women want their partners to attend they are either invited in once everyone else has left at the end or the peer supporters will see them in a separate room. They try to accommodate everyone but don’t allow men in the main room during the group.

Is it Top Trumps? yes, and the person who does not want to feel exposed in front of men, wins.

I’m not unsympathetic to your needs, but the fault lies with the providers who have not made any adjustments so ALL women feel included, not with women who don’t want men there.

Presumably the women at these support groups will come across men in other situations? I'm unsure as to why this is any different?

It is different because they are trying to breast feed which may involve being topless. They probably don't come into contact with men (other than their DH/DP) in other situations where they are half naked.

FriarTuck I agree. I have now checked local services, as my experience was a few years ago, and they are still running the drop in support groups, which are for support with specific issues, and for ongoing social support. They still actively encourage partners to attend. There do not appear to be any women only groups. I therefore suggest that those who feel strongly that this is wrong raise it with your community health trust, and also agree that perhaps it is something that Mumsnet can lobby against.

Really insistent on missing the point TheDeflector, is that why you picked the name?

No one begrudges your situation, plenty of suggestions have been made. You seem to be adamant that women who wish for privacy and a supportive female environment are "unkind" or in some way flawed. They aren't and they do not need to justify a wish for single sex support either.

I fundamentally do NOT want a world where "men can get to fuck" when it comes to pregnancy, breastfeeding etc - for me that continues the persistence that anything relating to child rearing is exclusively female and long term plays a role in aspects of childcare such as shared parental leave having abysmal take-up.

me neither @onthisoccasion. I want my partner to be included and supported as much as me as we both learn to parent.