To ask why you didn't/don't want children?

[alfie22]

I'm in no way judging anybody who have decided not to have DCs.

But I am genuinely intrigued for the reasons why after reading a thread about somebody's DD not wanting children.

What are your reasons for not having children? Would there any be "what ifs" further down the line?

The whole having/raising a child is an exercise in selflessness, self-sacrifice and denial of things to oneself, with no opt-out option.... Becoming parents does change people for the better, it is a profound experience.
Complete load of tosh IMHO.
People have children because they want them, you can't get more selfish than that.

But weren't you also a bit wound up by people's reasons for not having children at all?

No, as I've already explained I was taking issue with people saying that being a parent is only drudgery. Which it isn't.

What winds me up is the way people are admitting (actually almost bragging about) the fact that they regret having their children.

Well maybe now you'll give the posters who don't want children a break - after all, if you know the life of a parent is not for you, isn't it better to stay childfree rather than have kids you regret?

It is very naive to think that nobody ever regrets having children or that everyone is capable of providing a loving, stable childhood.

Seems like you want to judge anyone who has a different opinion to you.

Wow. This is an anonymous (unless you actually reveal identifying things) forum where people should be able to say that they regret having children. I am sure they don't go home and tell their children that at the dinner table but equally it isn't something that they should feel ashamed about.

No they probably don't tell them, but I'm sure it comes across to the children.

And yes, yes one should feel ashamed about not wanting the children one decided to have.

No, as I've already explained I was taking issue with people saying that being a parent is only drudgery. Which it isn't.

You literally picked apart a poster's reasons one by one, arguing that they were wrong because your experience was fine. People are different, not everyone will experience things the same way you do.

Well maybe now you'll give the posters who don't want children a break - after all, if you know the life of a parent is not for you, isn't it better to stay childfree rather than have kids you regret?

I've never had a go a anyone saying they don't want children. I've merely countered the idea that it's all drudgery. I'm having to repeat myself a lot here.

Seems like you want to judge anyone who has a different opinion to you.

I judge people that judge my choice to have children and who believe my life is now shit because of that choice.

You literally picked apart a poster's reasons one by one, arguing that they were wrong because your experience was fine. People are different, not everyone will experience things the same way you do.

It's a discussion forum. I countered their post with s different option, it's true that not everyone has the same experience and that's what I was illustrating

I'm actually happy to read other people's reasons, and I kind of thought I was a massive outlier on this site not having kids, so it's nice to know there are lots of others.

And yes, yes one should feel ashamed about not wanting the children one decided to have.

But when people gave long lists of why parenting wouldn't be for them and why they'd most probably regret having children you took exception to that and decided to do a point by point rebuttal. What is your actual problem? It's a bit odd to come on to a thread like this and then get annoyed that people aren't in complete agreement with you that being a parent is amazing.

What is your actual problem?

Ive explained at least three times now.

And yes, yes one should feel ashamed about not wanting the children one decided to have.

So on the one hand you're arguing with people who state they don't want children and are picking apart their reasons (and not just the 'drudgery', there were plenty of others). You clearly don't respect their decision.

Yet on the other hand you judge people who have done exactly what you're advocating by having children, but who have found it wasn't for them.

This just shows that there needs to be a much wider discussion in society about whether people should or shouldn't have children, rather than considering it the done thing.

Surely we all cook and clean anyway, and have to be out the door on average 5 days a week
But you only have to get up early enough to get yourself ready. You only have to put food in your own mouth and you don’t make a huge mess that needs cleaning up. And afterwards your time is your own - you can watch tv and drink wine, or even go out.

chanderl can you see the irony in your comment And yes, yes one should feel ashamed about not wanting the children one decided to have.

So on one hand you say life with children is not drudgery so how dare us childfree folk say that. But then you think parents should be ashamed if they say they regret having children because clearly they should be loving every bit of it like you do. People can have regrets but still do their best in the circumstances.

You sound very inflexible with your thinking.

I’d be more interesting in asking men why they wanted kids seeing as a huge percentage of them seem to do very little in the way of parenting
I think my DH wanted “the perfect little family”. He saw it as the done thing. But he still wanted to keep his job and hobbies while I did all the donkey work. Perhaps that’s why he’s a lot happier with being a parent than I am.

I’d be more interesting in asking men why they wanted kids seeing as a huge percentage of them seem to do very little in the way of parenting

I'm sure you've seen the posts on MN about how men who don't want children are just selfish manchildren who need to grow up. A lot of men think that having children is the thing you have to do, or have partners who feel that way and they just go along.

I spent many years with my late husband trying desperately to have children - and it was all for nothing as I didn't have the children and my husband died. After a long time single, I'm now engaged to someone else and this weekend we had a talk about children. He has a step daughter from a previous relationship, but never wanted any of his own. He is the sort of person who my late husband and I spent years not understanding and, if I'm honest, judging and pitying. The people who could have what we wanted so much, but chose not to.

However, this weekend I realise that my outlook has changed. My new partner suggested that we could look into fostering or adoption but I realised that I don't want children now. I wanted them 20 years ago with my first husband, but now I find that I don't have the desire. Maybe I never really had it as much as my husband anyway - he was always the driving force in our quest - but maybe I don't want to go there with those thoughts because I'm scared I'll just feel regret.

But I find now that I don't enjoy the company of children. I get annoyed by their loudness and their demands. I like the quietness of my life with my dogs, my dad and my mother in law. I like the fact that with my new partner I can be spontaneous and, although we live 200 miles apart and will continue to do so for work, I can just go and see him when I choose (because my dad looks after the dogs and the mother in law lol). I like having disposable income and freedom.

It doesn't mean that I have no responsibilities, that I'm selfish or immature. I'm a middle aged business owner who is a carer for her father and mother in law.

It also doesn't mean I have no right to judge bad parenting - because I see the affects of it on society and I'm a member of society.

I have always felt that love is subjective, so people talking about their love for anything I take with a pinch of salt. Personally I will never love another person the way I did my first husband, but that doesn't mean I don't completely love my new partner or the other people in my life, although I do admit that I probably love my dogs more than any of them.

It's nice to live a life of contentment and fun and, to me, now, that wouldn't be the life that I would live if I had children.

It's nice to live a life of contentment and fun and, to me, now, that wouldn't be the life that I would live if I had children.

This is exactly what I think too. I love my quiet life and don't want it to change.

Booboo66 your comment about there being no more cooking and cleaning with children in the house is so far removed from fact it’s laughable. I have a six year old and a three year old and my house is a toy grave yard. I used to be house proud, I used to have flowers in vases and polish the coffee table. Now I walk around with polyfilla filling in dents in walls and trying to remove stains from carpets.

I love the little sods with all my heart but the house work is never ending and I’m constantly preparing meals. It’s hard, monotonous, relentless graft. My former life included just me and a cat and we generated hardly any mess and ate whatever we liked whenever we had time. That was not hard work at all.

It’s incredibly insulting to those who either choose not to or can’t have children

Oh give over. The poster said that having children can contribute to personal growth, not that it always does or that it’s the only way to achieve it. Of course having children can contribute to personal growth - if you told me that you’d achieved personal growth by training to run a marathon, building an orphanage, starting a charity, getting a degree, I wouldn’t say it was insulting to people who hadn’t done those things. Why is the idea that parents may grow as people as a result of having kids such an affront to you?

Also, raising a healthy, nice kid seems already like a massive commitment in itself, but raising a child with severe additional needs seems like a whole other ball game. I simply don't think I could do it without (awful as this may sound) ending up resenting the child, and no child deserves that.

Yes it does sound awful, and yes of course you could because, being presumptuous for a second, I assume you’re not an utterly terrible human being.

I wondered how long it would take people to bring up the risk of having kids like mine as a reason not to have any at all. Not long, as always. I’m sick of disabled children being used as a bogeyman like this.

I really detest all this “I could never raise a child with disabilities”, as if those of us who do so without resenting our children are enlightened beings who are magically more able to cope. We fucking aren’t.

I planned for one baby and to be back to work within a year. I ended up with twins, one seriously ill from birth, and both diagnosed with disabilities by 2 years old and very little chance of me ever working properly again. It’s really fucking hard but what you don’t do is resent your own child for having problems that they didn’t cause. Not resenting your child for being disabled is about the lowest possible bar for human decency going.

Every time someone trots out this “I couldn’t possibly raise a disabled child” it perpetuates the ableist attitude that only healthy children can make parents happy. My kids are fucking awesome and it’s very very easy not to feel resentful of them, thanks.

My whole life I never wanted children, never thought I would be capable of raising them, loved solitude and the freedom to move through the world spontaneously.
In my late twenties my manipulative mother really started to apply the pressure. My brother had come out as gay and she saw me as the last hope. She spiralled into existential depression when I repeated to her that I didn't want children. Her manipulation eventually worked and I started to panic, waking at 3am gripped with the fear that I was leaving it all too late, that I was making the wrong decision.
At 31 I gave birth. My life changed irreversibly in ways both good and bad. But the good outweighed the bad, my daughter was a joy.
Next week I will give birth to my third and last child. Mentally, physically and professionally I would have been far better off not giving into my mother's pressure. Ironically enough my relationship with her is now completely non existent. While my children are taking up all my time and energy at the moment they are wonderful to know and have enriched my own life so much. I want to do the best by them. I have always treated them as equal human beings to me, and although they are very small they are lovely to be around and remind me of the magic you can see in the world as a child. It is all about the way you view the relationship, it can benefit parent and child. It doesn't have to be so hard!!

Just to add I would never pressure my own children in the way I was pressured and would be delighted for them to have no children! I think it is so admirable that people carve out their lives exactly how they want them and don't now to pressure or default to societal expectations. Child free people contribute so much to us all.

It’s perfectly within your to not have children but the decision to become a parent is not selfish it’s a strong biological urge for all animals it’s how life continues.

Animals feel the urge to have sex which leads to offspring. They don't consciously feel the need to have children like humans do, that is mostly down to social conditioning.

Horses v children I chose the horses. No contest. Parenthood looks a totally boring life of drudgery. From what I have seen the divorce rate is higher for those with children as generally the men are less enthusiastic.

And yes, yes one should feel ashamed about not wanting the children one decided to have.

Didn’t you say in an earlier post that choosing not to have children was an uneducated opinion?

And yet you judge someone who did have children and regretted it?

It sounds like you are basically judging anyone who doesn’t find in parenthood the meaning of life.

SinkGirl

Isn't it better for everyone involved (including the children) if the people who believe they would struggle to look after special needs or disabled children don't have them?

In my case, I have a mother with severe mental health issues which have been extremely challenging to deal with all my life. There is a chance that any children of mine could develop the same issues (a much higher chance than in the general population) and I'm being totally honest in saying i cannot deal with that. Growing up with my mother almost broke me, and she sent my grandparents to early graves. I'm only starting to heal now, and I know I could not cope with both a mother and a child with those issues.