To want someone to explain 3 things about Brexit

[Bearbehind]

If I could understand these 3 things I might get my head round why we are persuing it:-

• What countries and products will we suddenly be able to trade that we couldn’t before?

• How will we be better off by losing frictionless access to the worlds largest trading bloc in return for gaining less than 1% of GDP we send to the EU?

• Even though we don’t want a border in NI and the EU don’t, we can’t avoid one under WTO rules so how is that going to be addressed?

And MN, please don’t move this to the Brexit corner

There is a government paper here.

The macroeconomic outcomes are on page 53 section 4 fig 4.1. You will note that all of the outcomes have a negative effect on GDP - but some are worse than others.

We can currently trade with whoever we like - but tariffs etc of stuff coming in from outside the EU are set by deals made by the EU. So I guess the idea is that the UK will be able to make different deals in future? Likewise we are currently part of the EU so exports from the UK are subject to tariffs in non EU countries based on deals made by the EU. So the assumption is that the UK will be able to negotiate better deals in future?

I can't see how the NI border issue can be resolved without signing up to some kind of free trade area - like Switzerland.

1. Atlantis
2. Wibble
3. NI will build a big wall two meters inside its boundary with the Republic, thereby avoiding a hard border technically because it won't be on the actual border.

fan, the EU has a lot more clout than we ever will so how would we ever get a better deal with any country than we could as part of the EU?

If you haven't bothered to do your research till now you're really not that interested in finding out.

Believe me, I’ve tried.

There are literally no positive answers to these questions that I’ve seen but if you have some, please share.

Why don’t you want this moved to the Brexit section?
Basically a few brave people will try and give a pro Brexit answer, and they will be shouted down by remainers (including you OP). Same old same old.

Because the Brexit section is hidden away and this is the biggest thing to affect our generation.

People who need this to be hidden away have a problem.

Hiding it doesn’t make it go away.

These really shouldn’t be difficult questions - they underpin the reasons for leaving.

the EU has a lot more clout than we ever will so how would we ever get a better deal with any country than we could as part of the EU?

Well yes. The whole point of the EU is to club together to be stronger and negotiate better deals.

So no answers. Thoroughly worth it all then?

Ozymandius , Bear doesn't want answers, she is pretty knowledgeable on Brexit. This is just the latest of innumerable threads she starts, hoping to argue with Brexiteers so she can demonstrate how right she is and how wrong they are.The reason she doesn't want it moved to the Brexit thread is so she can have fresh toys to play with.

And yet, there are still no answers...

time I really do want answers.

I want to know why we are persuing this.

3 years in - surely there must be some reasons that people can share?

If not, why are we still doing it?

I'll have a go

- What countries and products will we suddenly be able to trade that we couldn’t before?
Yet to be determined, but Liam Fox's department will be pursuing this. Legally no FTAs can be agreed until after we leave. A few have been tentatively lined up. FTAs create more favourable trading conditions between their signatories than the "most-favoured nation" principle under WTO rules, so might liberalise trade with those countries.

- How will we be better off by losing frictionless access to the worlds largest trading bloc in return for gaining less than 1% of GDP we send to the EU?
Again, this is an unknown quantity. It depends on what FTAs can be signed with other countries, and whether one can balance out the other. Someone else posted a link to a quantitative analysis.

- Even though we don’t want a border in NI and the EU don’t, we can’t avoid one under WTO rules so how is that going to be addressed?
A border arises where there are either immigration controls or different regulatory requirements between two parts of a territory. Some agreement will need to be reached which avoids either of those problems. My best guess would be reunification, which in truth looks like an inevitability eventually anyway. It would solve many problems, and might start to look attractive enough to the people of Northern Ireland to tip the balance in favour.

I know that there are lots of threads on this but, like the OP, I can't find anyone on them who can give actual FACTS as to how leaving the EU could be more beneficial than remaining. As in something other than saying "We'll have our freedom back!", Then never backing this up and moaning that remainers are refusing to consider them.

1 we an remove the 26 percent tariff on dairy protect helping the poorest in society
2 the us is the biggest trading partner of the uk
3 theres aready a border

I want to know why we are persuing this.
mps voted to trigger article 50

Well yes. The whole point of the EU is to club together to be stronger and negotiate better deals.

better deals for who not the people of greece thats for sure

The solution to Brexit shouldn't be the UK getting rid of countries that don't 'fit' in with the new look UK. Reunification might solve the border issue but what about the people in NI who are British? Does the Republic of Ireland want a United Ireland where the 6 counties are forced to reunite because they are inconvenient? If a united Ireland happens it should be because the majority of citizens in both NI and the Republic want it, not because they were forced into it. The choas that would cause for the island of Ireland, as a whole, would be enormous. Considering how much flak Ireland gets in the UK for expecting the UK to stand be the GFA, an international agreement, why should they step in to make life easier y agreeing to reunification?

YABU in asking this in AIBU and saying that it shouldn't be moved to the Brexit section. How is this not about Brexit?

Ireland gets in the UK for expecting the UK to stand be the GFA, i hope you realize ireland put checkpoints armed with military personnel on the border during foot and mouth.

My memory of the economic status of the UK before we joined common market (as it was then) is that the country was in severe decline - whilst there have been world wide financial glitches (ie the bank crisis) our standard of living had improved greatly since the 70's - I cannot personally see that Brexit is going to improve our lives or our freedoms - particularly if we are going to rely more heavily on the USA (nb both Boris & Farage had financial connections with the USA)

If I could understand these 3 things I might get my head round why we are persuing it:-
because the sts ar far less the gains obviously weve already put the 350 million pounds to the nhs unemployment lowest for years and we havent even left yet

@greenlloon that was almost 20 years ago and as neither the UK or EU kicked a fuss up about it, and I haven't read or heard anything about it during Brexit discussions I'm not sure of its relevance to the discussion.

My memory of the economic status of the UK before we joined common market (as it was then) is that the country was in severe decline - whilst there have been world wide financial glitches (ie the bank crisis) our standard of living had improved greatly since the 70's - I cannot personally see that Brexit is going to improve our lives or our freedoms - particularly if we are going to rely more heavily on the USA (nb both Boris & Farage had financial connections with the USA)
we joined in 73 since then weve had 5 different recessions and black Wednesday