To want someone to explain 3 things about Brexit

[Bearbehind]

If I could understand these 3 things I might get my head round why we are persuing it:-

• What countries and products will we suddenly be able to trade that we couldn’t before?

• How will we be better off by losing frictionless access to the worlds largest trading bloc in return for gaining less than 1% of GDP we send to the EU?

• Even though we don’t want a border in NI and the EU don’t, we can’t avoid one under WTO rules so how is that going to be addressed?

And MN, please don’t move this to the Brexit corner

So, Leavers can’t answer the questions.

Leavers can’t justify the decision to leave.

But Isabella says the decision to leave ‘must be respected’.

So we have to leave, even though it will cause job losses and trash the economy.

I don’t respect anyone who can’t grasp that democracy does not entail clinging blindly to one vote which will bring chaos and suffering.

I can’t believe Leavers are still attempting to claim credibility when they can’t answer those questions. It’s ludicrous. There is actually no one on here capable of justifying leaving beyond ‘we won, get over it’. How utterly shameful!

So, Leavers can’t answer the questions
This is a daft mantra. It doesn’t mean anything and it doesn’t prove anything. Not being able to give answers to questions which the questioner has no expectation can be answered and are only posed in order to demonstrate how only one opinion can be valid or respected is not the same thing as reasoned debate.

In fact that only way we can find out how these things will work is by doing them. I understand the argument that it is foolish to try, but self-evidently some outcomes can not be accurately predicted.

I don’t respect anyone who can’t grasp..
I find it hard to respect people who characterise those who disagree with them by opining that it is caused by an inability to “grasp” something..

- What countries and products will we suddenly be able to trade that we couldn’t before?

How about the US (the world’s largest economy), China (the world’s second-largest), India (a very fast-growing economy) and Australia (our old ally) for starters?

The EU doesn’t have any trade deal in place with any of those countries.

So we don’t buy anything from those countries currently margaret?

We currently export more to Ireland than to China. What do you think will bring a more prosperous future for the UK— selling to Ireland (five million people) or to China (more than a billion)?

family it is completely reasonable to ask for examples of the things people have cited as their reason for wanting to leave, hence question 1 and 2.

I truly dont understand how you could ever argue differently.

If someone voted Leave so we could have our own trade deals surely they thought about which countries those deals would be with and how the UK, on it’s own, could achieve a better deal than the EU ever could.

oh gawd...

margaret what can we offer China that it’s worth them buying from us?

Also, what are they, as a much more powerful country than us, going to want in return?

what are you planning to sell to china, margaret? once youve thoroughly trashed our service and car industry of course.

Artificial intelligence, Roger Wilkins' cider and unicorn poop.

Excellent margaret.

That’ll make it all worthwhile.

This really is soul destroying.

This clip from Politics Live on the BBC sums up where we're at pretty well.

www.facebook.com/stroud4europe/videos/324395471833952/

Margaret just supposing that we actually had anything we wanted to trade with China or Australia to give a couple of your examples, can you explain to me how it would be financially better to do so than counties on our doorstep? Surely the airmiles alone would negate any favourable tarrifs, and that pretty short sighted as air travel costs are set to increase. It’s obviously assuming that they wouldn’t smell the desperation and would give us very favourable terms, and it’s ignoring the environmental costs. Trading with our neighbours is surely the most cost effective and environmentally friendly option available and I’m not sure why anyone would want to alienate them.

Our biggest export to China is cars. Brexit's fucked that one up good and proper.

This is surreal; it’s like Leavers really have just compartmentalised things completely and haven’t joined things up.

• China is bigger than Ireland so trading with them must be better

• £350m a week will stay in our coffers and everything else will stay the same

• The foreigners we don’t want will leave and the good ones will stay

It’s mind blowing really

UK exports to the EU dropped 10% between 2006 and 2016. If we remain in the EU what will that figure be in 2026 @Bearbehind?

As the EU's goal is ever-deeper integration, how will that benefit Britain by 2026, particularly as we have kept our own currency?

We export tea to China by the way…

And the UK actually already sells more to the rest of the world than we do to the EU—only under EU tariffs that don't benefit us.

These are Brexiter answers (not mine) 2 OP's questions.

- What countries and products will we suddenly be able to trade that we couldn’t before?

"90% of growth in the world (in next unstated amount of time) will come from emerging markets. Those people will give us great trade deals." (too bad they are dirt poor areas of world right now and it will take many decades for those emerging markets to catch up with EU if they ever do)

- How will we be better off by losing frictionless access to the worlds largest trading bloc in return for gaining less than 1% of GDP we send to the EU?
"The EU is old & decrepit, the 90% growth countries will overtake EU" (in unstated time frame, let's just pretend UK isn't also an ageing population with same economic structural weaknesses, economic & social expectations & standards as rEU).

Even though we don’t want a border in NI and the EU don’t, we can’t avoid one under WTO rules so how is that going to be addressed?

"This is a made up issue, not real, Project Fear. Neither side will put up a border so there won't be one no matter what happens."

(or)

"The WA will become unnecessary when EU realises UK is serious about crashing out. Knowing the threat is real, the EU will cave and easily negotiate a trade deal that is great for UK UK with no need for a WA, and the trade deal will mean a free trade border in Ireland."

(or)

"The technology already exists to make the border completely frictionless. But there is a remainer conspiracy to pretend it doesn't exist. When EU realises UK is serious about No Deal, EU (& RoI) will cave and suddenly agree the technology exists after all."

Apparently some Remainers are under the impression that majority of the UK's international freight is transported by air. IT'S MIND BLOWING REALLY!

margaret could you give some serious examples of products we would be able to trade with countries outside the EU, that we can’t already.

And could you explain how you think the US or China or India won’t insist on terms that favour them like access to the NHS or visas.

Goods arriving into UK, 2017...

BY ROAD: 4.6 million units
PORTS: 24.1 million units

Vast majority of port traffic was from EU (see graphic)

@Bearbehind

UK exports to the EU dropped 10% between 2006 and 2016. If we remain in the EU what will that figure be in 2026?

As the EU's goal is ever-deeper integration, how will that benefit Britain by 2026, particularly as we have kept our own currency?