Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Protection built in.

Meet the Other Phone.
Protection built in.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To be deeply saddened by a teenager being euthanised **Upsetting content - warning added by MNHQ** ***MNHQ further note that the details of this story are disputed***

337 replies

TheHorseOnSeventhAvenue · 04/06/2019 17:59

I am greatly aware of our rights and understand autonomy but as far as I can see this young Dutch girl, Noa, did not end her own life but was assisted.

My heart goes out to her and her family but this is my absolute reason why euthanasia should not be supported.

OP posts:
MoominMantra · 04/06/2019 23:23

The independent says that she was 'granted legal Euthanasia'

cranstonmanor · 04/06/2019 23:23

@MoominMantra

How did someone fail that girl? She committed suicide, not euthanasia. Please read my posts

cranstonmanor · 04/06/2019 23:24

@MoominMantra
The british news is wrong. I am dutch, she enquired about euthanasia but it wasn't granted.

Wittsendargh · 04/06/2019 23:24

It was euthanasia because the doctors didn't stick to their oath of protecting life. Patients with anorexia in the severest form are (mostly) sectioned and then force fed via a peg or tube. My understanding is this was not done in this case. The doctors allowed the withdrawal of food and water, which eventually resulted in her death. The doctors also (according to what I saw in the news) gave her pain killers to ease the suffering which will have been caused by the hunger.

JessieTalamasca · 04/06/2019 23:25

She said so herself, Moomin, she ended her own life. She was not euthanised.

I think it's fucking barbaric to force people to live in pain and suffering because one's morals are pricked by other people's choices over their own bodies and lives. It's the same mentality that's causing abortion rights to be curtailed in the US, oh, no, can't have that, slippery slope, thin end of wedge . . .

cranstonmanor · 04/06/2019 23:26

No, it was not euthanasia. With euthanasia they give you a drug that makes you die. She chose to stop eating and drinking. That is suicide.

JessieTalamasca · 04/06/2019 23:29

Exactly! Euthanasia - usually a sedative type of drug, then pentobarbital.

You can actually get pentobarbital in Mexico or China and people have been known to smuggle it into the UK in order to end their lives (a former MP who had struggled for many years with addiction and depression did this just a couple of weeks ago). But his death was a suicide as it's illegal here.

madcatladyforever · 04/06/2019 23:29

Why shouldn't we be pro choice for MH. MH can be more painful than having a terminal illness. The agony is terrifying.

MoominMantra · 04/06/2019 23:32

. 'It's the same mentality that's causing abortion rights to be curtailed in the US, oh, no, can't have that, slippery slope, thin end of wedge'

Definitely not the same mentality at all. The abortion rights issue in the US is about control as the same people execute prisoners .

For me personally, I don't think it's possible for a 17 year old to know that she's never going to feel any better and that her life will always be unbearable.

MoominMantra · 04/06/2019 23:35

Pro choice for MH would mean what? Allowing people who can't make sound decisions / people with a psychosis to kill themselves when they could have got better and felt happier? When you're in the depths of depression you can't appreciate that one day you could feel happy. And I should know...

user1486131602 · 04/06/2019 23:37

Such a shame that she only received so much attention in death

Genevieva · 04/06/2019 23:45

There is passive and active euthanasia. The withdrawal of life support (including tube feeding) is passive euthanasia. In the UK active euthanasia is illegal, whereas in the Netherlands it is legal under strict criteria. Passive Euthanasia is legal in certain circumstances in both countries. The Liverpool Care Pathway is a controversial example of passive euthanasia for frail patients who have not consented to the treatment method.

The withdrawal of life support for Noa would not be available in the UK because she is otherwise young and healthy, but it is worth remembering that anorexia has an extremely high death rate. Without treatment up to 20% of anorexics die. With treatment that is reduced to about 2%, but that is not the same as curing 98%. It is a pernicious disease that is very difficult to treat. Force-feeding might keep someone alive, but it is invasive and not obviously compatible with improving mental health.

My heart breaks for this young woman, whose depression, anorexia and death appear to be a direct result of childhood trauma. It is so hard to accept that those wounds could not be healed and that her death could not have been avoided.

ChocoholicsAsylum · 04/06/2019 23:54

I am all for euthanisia but not for depression! Im for it for severe dementia/motor neuron disease/severe stages of MS/Cancer, etc. Incurable illness or ones with poor outcome. Id not wish to be alive and not know my family or how to look after myself. Depression can be cured. Ive been there and still have off days but it can get better. Shame x

Berrylin · 05/06/2019 00:28

It was euthanasia because the doctors didn't stick to their oath of protecting life.

Speaking as a doctor, medicine isn't about protecting life at all costs. It's also about knowing when to stop.

For me it comes down to 'Do No Harm'. Sometimes, attempting to prolong life causes harm - that's why we have Do Not Resuscitate orders, for example.

EmeraldShamrock · 05/06/2019 01:07

The update on euro news said she got to decision to be euthanised.
The clinic was present at her death, She applied without her family, spent lots of time in hospital, it looks like they tried to help.
I don't think she starved, it reads like she got the injection after her doctor agreed.

EmeraldShamrock · 05/06/2019 01:13

@cranstonmanor
I take your word better than the papers. Why are they saying euthanasia.
Starving yourself is the result of anorexia a serious form of self harm or suicide if no other option, but it wouldn't be described as euthanasia.
I read a story years ago a lady starved herself to death when in the late stages of motor neuron disease.
I don't think it is uncommon but wouldn't be classed as euthanasia.

ineedtostopbeingsolazy · 05/06/2019 01:33

There are lots of personal stories on here but I would ask if there is one parent of a teenage child on here who will come out and say - yep if that was my daughter I would respect her decision and support her.

No that would never happen. I moved heaven on earth to help my dd and I continue to do so If something were, god forbid, to happen it certainly wouldn't be because I supported her in her decision that's unthinkable.
Anyone saying different doesn't have a child in that situation.

RiversDisguise · 05/06/2019 01:57

Not a chance in hell

Heshotmedown · 05/06/2019 03:25

Putting aside the issue of whether she received an injection she asked for ( which would be active voluntary euthanasia) people saying this isn’t euthanasia are wrong - it’s a pretty clear example of voluntary passive euthanasia (withholding or withdrawing certain treatments or procedures that are keeping a patient alive) - normally a person with anorexia at this stage would be sectioned and force feed. The Drs chose not to perform or withdrawn this action.

Walkaround · 05/06/2019 04:07

Noa had already been put into a medically induced coma in order to be force fed the last time she starved herself to the point of risk of organ failure. If someone's extremely severe mental health issues were triggered in the first place by forced removal of their bodily autonomy, I think you need to be careful about how often you forcibly remove their bodily autonomy from them in order to force feed them. Clearly those who were treating Noa eventually decided the point had been reached where it would be cruel to continue forcing her to stay alive. I don't think people who are reading about the case in inaccurate news reports are best placed to pass judgement on this.

Ihatehashtags · 05/06/2019 06:28

What is the problem? She was sick of suffering.

sashh · 05/06/2019 06:39

'Netherlands does not have specialised institutions or clinics.'

You need to remove the full stop you inserted and quote the full sentence

I suspect this went a LONG way in making her decision. She didn't even have a chance to try and heal.

I think she has had a long time to 'try' to heal.

If she had fought cancer for years would you say the same?

FromEden · 05/06/2019 06:42

What is the problem?

What is the problem? Seriously? Yeah, it's grand. Let's just let teenagers kill themselves and make no attempt to help or stop them. Teenagers are known for their impeccable decision making skills. Anyone who has an issue with this is the one with the problem. Especially parents who don't want their child to die needlessly. How selfish of them. Evil bastards

Ffs

AphidEater · 05/06/2019 06:46

This made me terribly sad too. I still support euthanasia in some circumstances, but 17 is too young in my opinion. I do know that this poor girl had very specific and traumatic circumstances that I can’t begin to understand, but I do wonder if things might have got better with some more time.

Devastating all round, for everyone involved.

Marinkazurie · 05/06/2019 06:53

she wasn't euthanised.

She stopped eating and drinking and nobody intervened in her decision. It's not the same thing.

That's horrific. When I had anorexia, I was warned that if I continued to refuse food that I would end up being forcefully admitted to hospital and fed through a tube, due to my weight being too low. But nobody did anything here?

Swipe left for the next trending thread