To be deeply saddened by a teenager being euthanised **Upsetting content - warning added by MNHQ** ***MNHQ further note that the details of this story are disputed***

[TheHorseOnSeventhAvenue]

I am greatly aware of our rights and understand autonomy but as far as I can see this young Dutch girl, Noa, did not end her own life but was assisted.

My heart goes out to her and her family but this is my absolute reason why euthanasia should not be supported.

So she should be made to live to spare your feelings?

Somersetlady

that’s because those who succeeded to kill themselves can’t come on an Internet forum

Yes, but we also can't say that they couldn't have recovered with treatment, had they survived.

Very sad. As a further thought, I've just read that between 12 and 16 "Parental consent" is needed. Not sure I can imagine a parent wanting to give this consent.

It was passive euthanasia, but not one that I can agree with. Poor child, she suffered too much and was not properly supported by the medical practitioners.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-19369239 This is the link that I meant to post!

It wasn’t really her own choice. It was a necessity, imposed upon her by her evil abusers and rapists. The torment she lived with day and night, the effects of depression and cPTSD; I can comprehend that. Some teenage victims of gang rape and repeat sexual assault don’t even fully process it until their middle-age; the clever human mind shuts it out as as self-preservation mechanism until you’re better-equipped to deal with and treat tit (this was me). What on earth happens to the likes of Noa - the ones to whom the full horror of that realisation comes crashing in at full force with no buffers to mitigate the paralysing effect of such horrific trauma? That poor, poor girl. No wonder she couldn’t cope.

LailaDay

I read the interview and a few other articles brought up by Google.
I'm so torn over this, so conflicted.
I have suffered with mental illness and survived. I remember during one attempt begging a family member to let me go because I couldn't take any more - I saw his hesitation, and realise it was because he was for that split second considering it, not because I wasn't worth fighting for, but because he hated seeing me in pain like that with no idea if there would ever be a positive outcome for me.
I suffered ongoing trauma as a child and I'm in two minds if I were actually mentally ill, somehow that feels like the initial trauma is being dismissed in favour of treating the 'illness' it caused. I don't know if that's correct or my thinking is skewed by the illnesses and how could I ever know.
I'm glad I'm alive right now, I'm glad he didn't give me my wish, and it makes me sad that this young lady suffered as much as she did, but at that time I'd have chosen what she did. I didn't have an eating disorder, so I truly don't know from that pov.
I also think that some of the 'treatment' probably made things worse, I've been locked in rooms wearing a straight jacket and drugged out of my mind for 'my own good' - it's torture, the little control you have over your mind goes and you're just there, living in the hell of it all as much as your brain can conjure. In a room with nothing and no one else where do you think your mind wanders to? Sleeping is induced but the nightmares remain. I can totally understand why anyone would need that to stop.
But that said I think it's heartbreaking that she, and others felt there was no hope that she could ever not be in that pain, and if she were my daughter I'd never have given up trying to persuade her to give it a little more time, to try another therapy, but how long does it take before you realise that more time, more therapy won't work? The very next try could work, nothing for 50 years could work. And so ultimately, I think it was her decision, I'm not sure about her being 17, I truly don't know where I stand on that, but I do think that she had as much right to say enough now, as a cancer patient refusing further treatment.
I'm just so saddened by the things that led to it as many of us are. I doubt her abusers will ever truly pay for what they did, and that's a very scary thought as a woman and the mother of a teen.

@sakura7 for every adult worldwide who attempts suicide there are 20 adults not successful. *

It is the second leading cause of death in the 15-29 age group. *

Those that really want to go nearly always go. This poor poor girl was under such a close watch as a suicide risk that starving herself was probably the only way she could achieve death

*Source WHO

NB long term private psychotherapy (EMDR and hypnosis) set my DH and me back thousands. It cost £150 a session and I was in therapy for well over a year. I don’t think CBT alone would have even scratched at it. It wasn’t only immediate therapy I needed, without a lengthy waiting list, but also the right kind. It makes me incandescent with anger that for those suffering as I did - as Noa did - proper treatment is still a matter of privilege.

As for the rapists who do this to us and get away with it, the depth of my rage and hatred for those people can never be fully articulated or communicated. These monsters have blood on their hands. And we’re it possible, I hope every last one of them will burn in hell.

TheHorseOnSeventhAvenue - don't get me wrong, the right to euthanasia is an important moral debate, I agree, and especially in the light that it tends to cost society far less than actual treatment, which should -imo- never be a consideration. I believe in rare cases, and I think Noa's case may have been one of them, euthanasia should be permissible, also for the young and also for mental illnesses, but not without exhausting many other options first (I am not sure about all options, because I think they may be endless and that would still lead to endless suffering, but I hope you get my meaning).

The fact is that Noa was denied assisted suicide, and the DM's report of this case is very misleading and just riddled with inaccuracies. That's what I was initially responding to.

Noa suffered so much, and I think her memoir about all her (often awful) experiences with mental healthcare during those six years will turn out very valuable. For now, I wish her the rest she deserves, and her family too.

IvanaPee

Yes I have read it. She was 17 and her brain hadn't finished developing.

I am not sure where I have been self congratulatory? I have apologised to you before and you continue to attack me.

I have pointed out legal restrictions in this country to "allowing people to die" when suicidal.

I haven't patted myself on the back, and I don't play God. I have to work within the law.

To be quite honest with you, people like you, sounding off, are one of the reasons why MH services in this country are woefully understaffed. We can't get it right no matter what we do. And get accused of "playing God" etc.

Fortunately, I have done the job long enough to be pretty immune to the opinions of keyboard warriors who don't see nuance or practical implications of things being "unfair".

No need to be so completely vile to me, despite others pointing it out to you. I appreciate that this says more about you than me, however, so I can only hope that you continue to recover. Truly

To PP who has saidfull autonomy over our own bodies, it sounds great in practice but not so good when someone is suffering psychosis, paranoid delusions or other acute synptoms.

Although ‘acute’ can sound like a short term condition it may go on for months or years.

I am sure PTSD could affect your decision making process for years.

Tabbyocelot I don't doubt that your relative had many convincing arguments. Like a pp, I spent a great deal of time at various points in my life telling people, with depth, vigour and detail, why it would be a good thing that I killed myself. That's because I was having irrational thoughts and once you start on that path sometimes there is literally no end to it. It made perfect sense to me. And as I was an articulate and convincing young woman on the surface it would present that I was making sense. I wasn't though. I was saying the things I said because I was profoundly traumatised and my at the time deeply held and sincere thoughts arose from that. I am glad that this was recognised, and that I wasn't permitted to do what I desperately longed for and felt that I needed. Because if I had been permitted, I would be dead. Instead, I'm alive.

HaroldsSocalledBluetits I'm glad you made it

Laibach (sorry I don’t know how to do @) - I think Noa’s death should have been preventable but do not know all circumstances but I think she wanted debate as part of her legacy.

People with MH issues are normally considered weak and I suspect Noa was strong, very strong. It doesn’t stop me thinking MH, euthanasia, right to life is a minefield and needs to be debated.

It's so sad.

By the way OP, there is already a thread on this started by someone who was also abused and she put a trigger warning in the title - maybe ask Mumsnet to put a trigger warning in the title (I'll report my own post).

No judgement but, yes, incredibly sad. RIP.

Thanks SuePerbly, I'm glad that you did too. I completely agree with what you're saying. When you've been close to the edge and come back it's different.

Awful I would say she was murdered by her abusers.

I have had a few times I've wished to die.

The first time I got depression at 12.
After I was first sexually assaulted.
After I was in an abusive relationship and then he shared a video of us having sex.
More recently in October when I had a major mental breakdown of anxiety and depression.

With the most recent I really had plans on it. My mind was so made up butnow, it seems so inconceivable.
Even still, I don't think someone should be told they are not allowed to die. When it comes to MH I think it should be a long time consideration.
Perhaps someone who has suffered multiple severe episodes of extreme bad mental health over 10 years may have it considered or someone who despite decades of therapy, still feels no joy in life despite multiple medications tried, inpatient and outpatient therapies etc.

I had a school friend who had a pretty rare condition. I can't remember the exact world of the confitionbut every 2-4 months from a young age, she needed facial surgery to prevent pressure.

After she reached her early 20s she could've stand going through more years of having to go through surgery. Not being able to stay continuously on a college or university course. Having to wear an oxygen mask at night - she just couldn't bare it any longer.
So she refused treatment and died a few years ago.
I was so sad to hear of her death but I did not blame her. I think she had every right to make that choice.

Obviously it's not the same, but it illustrates a case by case is more appropriate.
We have to try to find the balance of providing help, resources and guidance and taking away someone's autonomy. After all, your body is just yours to do with as you wish.

The crappiest part of any sexual crime is it's near impossible to feelbyou own your body anymore. In comparison my sexual 'traumas' (I use these marks as they are not comparable to many on here) are pretty mild. But I still do not feel comfortable or safe in my own body a lot of the time.

I'm stunned that a modern European country has no mental health care. How do they get away with that? I have survived PTSD, clinical depression and have been suicidal, and to me refusing care should count as a form of State torture.

I am pro euthanasia, for when pain and illness have become unbearable. I am less certain about for mental health problems such as PTSD and depression. and definitely not when its offered in place of mental health care.

Truly sad. May she rest in peace. She was clearly suffering but her age makes me disagree. You are not the person at 30 or 40 or 50 that you are at 17. Yes she was suffering but was it irreversible....in time could she not have maybe got to a better mental space and been ok? I do agree with euthanasia if it's the person's wishes and their suffering is great. But in this case I worry she was much too young and there was too much scope for change in her mental health to agree it was right. So sad.

She was clearly suffering but her age makes me disagree. You are not the person at 30 or 40 or 50 that you are at 17. Yes she was suffering but was it irreversible

I agree

Slippery slope of you ask me...But condolences to her family and I hope she is now at peace.

My life my choice. Always.