To ask why aibu is so anti-trans?

[BinkyBaa]

Just that really. I don't mean to be goady I've just noticed that when it comes up here, people seem more against it than other social circles I'm familiar with. I think I'm a bit out of the loop as to what the issue is.

No doubt you 'can't be bothered' to link to it tho, amirite? Because these answers don't exist.

No, because of the fact they get deleted if they are outright transphobic . That's kind of how it works
not because I can't link.

He came here to learn, like so many innocents before him.

This isn't an online secondary school. Most people here complete formal education first, then post from a position of knowledge. They don't expect other MNers to spoonfeed them GCSE Biology.

Neither do I, expect to be spoon-fed, so that's good isn't it.

Maybe people need a thread on what is considered transphobic. Because I imagine that if they realised some of the dictats coming out of trans HQ at the moment they’d be horrified.

I’ll start:

It is transphobic to us female centred language about female bodies. There is no such thing as female anatomy. So vaginas are front holes and breasts are chests.

Bizarrely, you aren’t a woman. You are a menstruator or pregnant person.

You see. It’s easy. Erase your biology to be more trans friendly. But also define yourself by your biological function to be more inclusive. It couldn’t be clearer.

Why is it that the people who come on threads and call everyone transphobic also end up showing themselves as transphobic?

The OP doesn't think transwomen should compete in women's sport - transphobic.

The OP, LK and other posters think that trans people are those who have had/are going to have genital surgery - transphobic.

Now, I'm sure that LK and others will think this is ridiculous hyperbole, but it is not us who have decided all this. And I'm fairly sure everyone here knows what actual real transphobia looks like. We know what male violence is.

But yeah, it's women on MN that are 'anti-trans'...

But yeah, it's women on MN that are 'anti-trans'...

Women who, repeatedly and consistently, request answers to the questions of 'what is it that makes you think this man is a woman' or 'what is it that changes to make a man who thinks he is a woman safer than a man who doesn't' just at the point at which the person calling them 'trans phobic' has something much more important to do than explain their own thinking.

Bizarre.

No, I don't think just people who have had bottom surgery are transwomen, just to be clear - I gave that as an example as I thought people might accept them or "get" what I was saying more.

“Bottom surgery” would make no difference to my point of view. Which is, no biological males in female segregated places/sports, etc.

Others may feel differently.

just to be clear Go on then, be clear. You have never given a straight answer to any question. You do as you have just done, you obfuscate, you protest, you ask another question. But you never say what it is YOU believe. That's why it is fun to ask you over and over again... so that all those who lurk can see what ridiculous lengths you will go to.

How to human beings change sex?
How do you know the difference between a man, who is NOT allowed into women's spaces, different to a transwoman, who you say IS?

If you answer those 2 questions, your own opinion not some ineffable global answer, you might be able to start doing the thing you say you came here for... to learn!

But as yet you just keep making utterly disingenuous statements, deflecting other posters and obfuscating. Stop it, try engaging honestly (as I have asked quite a few times over the last few months).

Everyone here knows what real transphobia is. We know what male violence is.

Sorry, do you mean only male violence is ever transphobia?
Um... OK.

Human beings can't biologically change sex.
I've never said they can.

I really still want to talk about crime statistics, women only crisis spaces and sport.

I am fed up of being sidelined into talking about changing rooms and loos. And while of course the question of what makes a woman or a man is fundamentally important, the fact is that the legal definition is now “if you say you are a woman that’s what you are”. So that is where we are. And we need to find a way to work with where we are. Because otherwise we’re totally buggered.

Human beings can't biologically change sex. Which suggests there is another way for them to do so. Pray tell? [Agog!]

Human beings can't biologically change sex
I've never said they can.

They don’t need to change sex, that penis is female and to say otherwise is transphobic.

Apparently.

You seem not to have any arguments to the conclusion that transwomen are women, JAPAB. Am I wrong? Do you?

JAPAB: "... leave it as self-ID."

A 'No', then. OK JAPAB. I was not wrong.

You're value for money, Kiwi, i give you that. I bet your colleagurd agree.

My colleagurd? Sorry, not a clue what you're actually talking about now.

LimeKiwi-can your share your views on women’s sport, rape with a penis being reported as a female crime and women sharing spaces in a rape crisis centre with male bodied people?

Sorry, do you mean only male violence is ever transphobia?

No.

because... people are pissed off with this particular group - shouty, aggressive, and violent. Nobody wishes any harm on transgenders, but they keep moving the goalposts, from pronouns to inclusion of murderers. enough is enough. You don't like it here - plenty of "inclusive" social media out there, where you are welcome to shit on women.

It's not anti-trans, it's anti-bollox.

'because... people are pissed off with this particular group - shouty, aggressive, and violent. Nobody wishes any harm on transgenders, but they keep moving the goalposts'

This too. I'm fucking sick of pussy footing around trying to offend anybody by using factual biological terms. I don't want my son growing up in a world where children are othered from their bodies. Our bodies and minds are one, for some people that has gone wrong along the way and they absolutely deserve support and understanding but how about some understanding in the other direction of the impact this is having on women and children.

Vulnerable group my arse. Many of them are vocal, aggressive and woman hating.

Take this phrase and place it in segregated America or Apartheid South Africa. It is the same awful generalisation that was used against integration towards black people. (Change woman for white people). It was not acceptable in that context and isn't in this one. Same for the generalisation that if one transperson commits a crime then we need to be wary of all transpeople. This is the exact thinking which has led to the terrifying racial problems in America.

I also find it odd that transmen are ra rely discussed on mumsnet. If the belief is that they are biological women, then why is their no interest in their rights?

Anyone who matches the position of biological women with whites in apartheid white South Africa clearly doesn't know what they are talking about.

Women are the oppressed group, not men.