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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To ask why aibu is so anti-trans?

712 replies

BinkyBaa · 04/06/2019 02:51

Just that really. I don't mean to be goady I've just noticed that when it comes up here, people seem more against it than other social circles I'm familiar with. I think I'm a bit out of the loop as to what the issue is.

OP posts:
Outofinspiration · 06/06/2019 19:27

I don't think any man should just be able to walk in off the streets into the ladies/the pool/the ladies changing room etc.
I don''t have a problem with transwomen using them though.
Hope that helps.

OK what, in your view, is the difference between' any man' and a transwoman? What is the distinction?

RuffleCrow · 06/06/2019 19:29

I think you're confused.

Not agreeing with someone's illogical beliefs doesn't mean you're 'against' that individual or religious group, op. It just means you disagree with them. Which is all well and good in a free society, i'd hope you'd agree.

The real question is why trans rights activists are so hostile to both biology and history. It's an extremely anti-knowledge movement.

RuffleCrow · 06/06/2019 19:30

They have the special pretty ladythoughts, outofinspiration. Obvs.

sackrifice · 06/06/2019 19:35

This is your moment Lime.

Explain to us what your definition of the difference is, educate us.

LimeKiwi · 06/06/2019 19:40

This is your moment Lime

What moment, why say it like that, these threads are weird lol.

Explain to us what your definition of the difference is, educate us

I don't have all the answers. Clearly if I did I'd be a very rich lady.

Outofinspiration · 06/06/2019 19:43

OK what, in your view, is the difference between' any man' and a transwoman? What is the distinction?

sackrifice · 06/06/2019 19:52

I don't have all the answers. Clearly if I did I'd be a very rich lady

You clearly do have the answer as you think there is some difference between men and trans women. As you believe one group should not access women's spaces, and one group should.

So what is this difference that made you decide that there is a difference in them accessing women's spaces?

LimeKiwi · 06/06/2019 19:57

You clearly do have the answer as you think there is some difference between men and trans women.

No I don't have the answer, seeing as I said I don't think anyone should just be able to walk in.
Transwomen though, or transmales, it's not just that easy. If I knew the answer, as I said I'd be rich.

haggistramp · 06/06/2019 19:57

Op do you honestly believe that trans identifying men are not capable of committing crimes against women? That somehow a man by identifying as a woman is suddenly no threat to women? And if you dont believe that, then why do you think that a womans safety anx dignity, specifically in jail/changing rooms/refuges should be compromised by trans identifying men? Do you think all services such as changing rooms, prisons and refuges and jails should be unisex and that the bad ones will magically be weeded out, like what is proposed atm with regard to trans identifying men (how many female victims are acceptable).

LimeKiwi · 06/06/2019 19:58

Transmales being women transitioning to males before someone misreads my comments.

MrsKCastle · 06/06/2019 19:59

LimeKiwi I am very interested in what the difference is to you. What makes 'transwomen' a group that you're happy to have in women's changing rooms, while you're not happy to have 'men' in there. Clearly you see an important difference between those two groups. Can you try to describe what it is, and how you can tell the two groups apart?

sackrifice · 06/06/2019 20:00

No I don't have the answer, seeing as I said I don't think anyone should just be able to walk in

You quite clearly stated that trans women could walk in.

So what is the difference between a man [which you said shouldn't be allowed to walk in] and trans women?

These are your comments. Own them. Explain them.

Outofinspiration · 06/06/2019 20:17

No I don't have the answer, seeing as I said I don't think anyone should just be able to walk in.
Transwomen though, or transmales, it's not just that easy. If I knew the answer, as I said I'd be rich.

People are not asking for 'the answer'.

You have stated that in your opinion, women should accept transwomen into their spaces. You are being asked what you are basing that opinion on.

So.... What are you basing that opinion on?

itscallednickingbentcoppers · 06/06/2019 20:25

'
I don't think any man should just be able to walk in off the streets into the ladies/the pool/the ladies changing room etc.
I don''t have a problem with transwomen using them though.'

I don't think you have given this issue a lot of thought. A lot of women don't, they consider the issue from the perspective of the trans person - always putting others first. It's ingrained into us - women come last, always bottom of the heap. We deal with all the shit and god forgive us if we complain and are labelled as feminists (what could be worse?!) And don't consider that actually this could have a negative impact on you. Or your daughters. Men continue to do what they like, men continue to invade our spaces, men continue to try to erode everything we've fought for. And quite a large proportion of us will roll over and let them without even realising it.

LimeKiwi · 06/06/2019 20:27

You clearly do have the answer

People are not asking for 'the answer

Well, that's not strictly true seeing as the comment I've quoted above that I was referring to in my previous comment said I clearly do have the answer.

Outofinspiration · 06/06/2019 20:30

You have stated that in your opinion, women should accept transwomen into their spaces. You are being asked what you are basing that opinion on.

So.... What are you basing that opinion on?

Answer the question please.

dancingcamper · 06/06/2019 20:50

Obviously it's unanswerable.

It. would come down to either "he's dressing/wearing makeup/heels" etc to mimic most women, in which case it's a costume or "because he said so".

I suppose in cases where people have had operations and taken hormones for a long time they may appear to be a woman, hence "passing" with no-one noticing. It feels a dodgy basis for social rules though.

Rufusthebewilderedreindeer · 06/06/2019 20:54

Obviously it's unanswerable

Yep

Ereshkigal · 06/06/2019 20:54

Transmales being women transitioning to males before someone misreads my comments.

Yes you are confused, because a male trans person generally identifies as a woman. It's not actually possible to change sex.

Ereshkigal · 06/06/2019 20:59

Is a transwomen anyone who says that’s what they are? Are you happy with a similar process for admission to women’s sport and to all other women only spaces?

I think I've been on 20+ threads where LimeKiwi or other incarnations of this particular poster have avoided giving an answer to this or similar questions. It's a waste of time.

LimeKiwi · 06/06/2019 21:16

You have stated that in your opinion, women should accept transwomen into their spaces. You are being asked what you are basing that opinion on

What even if they'd transitioned fully (as in bottom half surgery) would you still not let them in your spaces?
Or if they were making steps to transition? As in still had biological bits but were wanting to remove soon

I would (accept that is)

Yeahnahyeah · 06/06/2019 21:21

Let's not forget among the huge amount of gaslighting done by this ideology, that 80% of trans women have penises and intend to keep them, and that a large percentage of them identify as lesbians - clit on a stick, lady penis, etc.
And then claim victimhood and transphobia.

Ask yourself why, in a rapid increase over very few years, young girls now make up the majority of those seeking blockers, hormones, "top surgery" (double radical mastectomy) and the rest.

And yet, the vast majority of those who "come out" as adults (think Caitlyn Jenner) are men.

And yet I'm not supposed to question this trend? Be nice? Be kind?

Yeah nah, thanks, I'm good.

Datun · 06/06/2019 21:22

I think I've been on 20+ threads where LimeKiwi or other incarnations of this particular poster have avoided giving an answer to this or similar questions. It's a waste of time.

Totally. It's a complete waste of time. You will get absolutely nowhere with this poster. They talk bollocks.

Yeahnahyeah · 06/06/2019 21:27

limekiwi it's called metoidioplasty. It is a horrific surgery with a massive complication rate.
*Trigger warning - a young woman's arm after the procedure:
photos.app.goo.gl/Muw3Lsfx7gGrbdmo7

Outofinspiration · 06/06/2019 21:27

What even if they'd transitioned fully (as in bottom half surgery) would you still not let them in your spaces?
Or if they were making steps to transition? As in still had biological bits but were wanting to remove soon

That is not the definition of 'transwoman'.

Do you mean you would only 'accept' males who had had full SRS or were intending to soon? Is that your definition of 'transwoman'?

Because in the current climate, that is totally transphobic. So actually, you are right at home on MN Smile

By the way, 'woman' is not 'man who has had his penis removed' so no, I don't accept that men who have had full SRS are women.

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