AIBU to think that straight people shouldn't be dictating who should be able to go to Pride?

[ArcheryAnnie]

I'm a woman. I'm a mum. I'm also someone who has been an LGBT+ activist for most of her adult life. I used to go on Pride marches when it was a little bit scary to do so, when there was always a message at the end from the stage about being careful when you were going home and away from the safety of the gay-friendly crowd.

Susie Green, Mermaids CEO, is a straight woman. Which is fine! She is opposed to women declaring that lesbians don't have penises. Which is less fine, but eh, she's entitled to believe whatever daft things she wants. But - however many friends and relatives she has who fit under the LGBT+ banner - Pride isn't about her, or any other straight "allies".

And yet here she is, declaring that "We will only take part if we are satisfied that concerns have been addressed". This is because she is very keen to prevent lesbians who believe that lesbians don't have penises from participating in the Pride march.

Source: prideinlondon.org/news-and-views/a-pride-without-hate/

Susie, we don't give a shit whether you take part or not. We don't agree with you that women standing up for the validity of same-sex attraction, for female homosexuality, qualifies as "hate". We really don't care what you want to happen or don't want to happen at Pride. Pride was created by people like us, in times of great need, and you don't get to dictate what we will or won't do. This isn't for you.

AIBU to think Susie Green and others like her should stay in their lane?

Not homogenderality. Although I now desperately want/don't want to Google and see if that's a thing

Stonewall only talk about being attracted to the ‘same gender’ now, not the same sex.

I’ve read the debates here a bit, and it just seems to me that people seem unwilling and/or unable to see each trans person as an individual. There may be some who are predators ‘in disguise’ but that doesn’t mean that is true of all or even most.

But when it comes to women-only spaces, that’s like saying we should see every man as an individual before deciding if it’s OK for him to shower or change next to us. You might know your friend is perfectly safe & be happy to ask him in. I just see a male stranger.

@ArcheryAnnie I think you linked to the wrong article - there’s no mention of lesbians with penises in it

Can you re-link to the correct one?

I think it’s interesting how many posters immediately jumped on side without even reading the article to get the full context!

The prevalence of Trans issues to the detriment of Lesbian issues is unfair, but I’m not sure that can be blamed entirely on trans people?

Of course not. Blaming whole groups for anything is dumb. Many of those pushing these ideas are not Trans, and most are certainly not Transsexuals as has previously been understood.

*I pretty much think the whole ‘you can’t be a REAL man/woman’ thing is incredibly petty and mean."

Biological sex exists regardless of your feelings. Saying people can't discuss the practicalities of women's rights because it's mean to acknowledge sex is pushing back the achievements of feminism.

Are you perhaps confusing political discussion with personal interaction? I have no difficulty treating a transsexual person as the sex they present while still understanding what sex is and being able to have robust discussion.

Real transphobia is ugly, it is rarely perpatrated by feminist women. I (and the trans people who post on FWR) feel that the actions of groups like Mermaids are fueling transphobia.

No one should be dictating who goes to pride, whether they are queer or straight. However straight allies are really important, after all it’s because of them that I can’t be sacked for being gay, it’s because of them that I can get married and it’s because of them that I have a son.

My issue is with someones attitude, I don’t care if they’re queer or not.

Personally I’m not really a pride attender as I’m not out and proud, but I did go to magical pride at the weekend to see someone very important to me perform. There appeared to be very few straight people there, it was mainly queer families, so it was nice for my son to see other families like his.

@ArcheryAnnie I think you linked to the wrong article - there’s no mention of lesbians with penises in it.
I think it’s interesting how many posters immediately jumped on side without even reading the article to get the full context!

No, that looks like the right article to me, but it’s them who are carefully not providing the full context.

What they’re all so horrified about from last year is that a group of lesbians, including Julia Long, protested at the front of the march with placards like “Lesbians Are Female Homosexuals” and “Lesbians Don’t Have Penises”. This is the hate they’re ranting about & this is who Susie Green wants to keep out of Pride. Lesbians & female biology.

But who is getting the statue in New York? Which 2 people are getting the statue and what label are the activists incorrectly pinning in them?

Fascinating article, thank you. Illegal to wear more than 3 items of clothing ‘wrong’ for your sex

No, that looks like the right article to me, but it’s them who are carefully not providing the full context.

What they’re all so horrified about from last year is that a group of lesbians, including Julia Long, protested at the front of the march with placards like “Lesbians Are Female Homosexuals” and “Lesbians Don’t Have Penises”. This is the hate they’re ranting about & this is who Susie Green wants to keep out of Pride. Lesbians & female biology.

HuntIdeas Empress is right - it's the original article which doesn't give the information that all this shenanigans with the police, etc, is to keep out lesbians who hold the radical idea that a lesbian means a woman who is same-sex attracted, and that it's OK for lesbians to reject penis.

The first Pride events were political marches with a bit of a thing in a park afterwards. They were about real issues homosexuals faced in our day to day lives, like not being able to visit partners in hospital if they were sick or losing kids in custody battles etc. By 1990, when I was coming out, I already knew someone who was killed in a 'gay bashing' attack. Being a lesbian was a bit scary tbh. The Pride events were amazing because they helped me deal with it all.
Over the years the parties in the park got bigger. Why not? Cool disco acts played. The Pet Shop Boys played. It stopped feeling political and was about the men cruising in the beer tent. Sponsorship got bigger and more important. Of course it did - parties in parks cost money to book and clean up after. Magazines were launched and a gay culture emerged, Diva and lipstick lesbians and that whole 1990s boom as homosexuality was rebranded into something more palatable. And also commodified.
So now we see the result of the commodification. Yes, we got gay marriage and legal equality. But the price was that our genuine culture has been erased and just anyone thinks they can call themselves 'lesbian' because they have read a copy of 'Diva'.

So now the people who book the stalls and pay for things, like Susie Green, feel that they can dictate what the content of the event should be. Lesbian feminists couldn't even book a float or a stand. It's not ours. We aren't paying for things.

What is Pride even about? It's moved from us saying 'Pride' because we were fighting the stigma and shame placed on homosexuality, to Lust and Gluttony from the boys in the beer tent, Avarice from the organisers. There is Sloth in the way that people don't want to know and listen when women explain what is happening. Envy from the men who want to own lesbianism but ultimately know they can't. And one day hopefully they will feel the Wrath of the women they have abandoned and vilified, and of the children Susie & Co have damaged irreparably.

YANBU

For those wondering what this is about, there's a good write up of the lesbian protest at last year's pride london here:

conatusnews.com/pride-london-lesbian-activism/

All the flowery language and definitions hides the point around pressurising lesbians to accept a person with a penis as a potential sexual partner.

Never mind the hoo haa around it all, the bottom line is that men are telling women we have no right to decide who has sex with us.

And THAT is a problem.

Unless you've drunk the kool aid of course.

GoodbyePiccadilly sums it up perfectly

I’m literally just copying Lisbon’s excellent summary because it deserves restating.

“All the flowery language and definitions hides the point around pressurising lesbians to accept a person with a penis as a potential sexual partner.

Never mind the hoo haa around it all, the bottom line is that men are telling women we have no right to decide who has sex with us.

And THAT is a problem.

Unless you've drunk the kool aid of course”

More shame less pride. What does it stand for now? Mainstream heterosexuals whooping it up and men in many forms.

For anyone here who is attending pride, either with placards or not, wear a body cam. The police will have their orders this year, as well as some other pride attendees with an agenda.

Lesbians at Ground Zero report by Get The L Out:

www.gettheloutuk.com/blog/category/research/lesbians-at-ground-zero.html

Podcast: Meghan Murphy speaks with Angela C. Wild of #GetTheLOut about her new report about the impact of trans ideology on lesbians

www.feministcurrent.com/2019/04/11/podcast-lesbians-at-ground-zero-angela-c-wild-on-gender-identity-ideology-and-lesbian-autonomy/

YANBU Annie.

OwlBeThere - And the whole discussion seems to want to ignore the fact FTM trans people exist too.

On the contrary. As well as the pressure on lesbians to have sex/relationships with tw, the other huge problem for the lesbian community is the exponentially growing number of young, especially butch, lesbians who are transitioning to become 'straight men'.

(image shows the number of referrals by sex to Tavistock GIDS service - from here)

More and more of these young women are now detransitioning and reclaiming their lesbian identity, however many no longer have their breasts, many have permanent facial hair and voice changes, some have damaged fertility.

This is why Susie Green cannot be dismissed as unimportant or silly.

@Owlbethere
You're so busy being so inclusive and nice and kind to these people who have been born in the wrong body you are not making sense. You don't think it's fair to say that a person with a penis is a man. That is one of the most stupid things I have ever read.
Human beings cannot change sex. Ever.
Susie Green is a very dangerous woman. She took her child to Thailand to be mutilated, she is the CEO of a trans lobby group. She has no place ordering Lesbians not to attend pride.
So op definitely not unreasonable

Everyone would agree that its obviously unacceptable to say to a trans person that they must overcome their transness and body dysphoria and learn to enact their biological sex to be socially appropriate. Its an awful, insensitive, unhelpful view that totally fails to respect the individual.

So why is it ok to say to homosexual women that they should overcome their homosexuality and learn to accept sex with male people and penises to be socially appropriate? Why is one group afforded respect the other group is denied when it's basically the same thing?

Please note the expectation too of lesbian women learning to 'accept' sex with with males. There's no suggestion that this should in any way be enjoyable for those lesbians, just that they need to make themselves do it.

Where with any other group of women is it considered appropriate to tell them that they should do any kind of sex as a duty, with clear acceptance that it won't be a choice or pleasure for them? Or that the pleasure of those who wish to have sex with them should be their overriding concern and not their own preferences and boundaries?

Where with any other group of women is it considered appropriate to tell them that they should do any kind of sex as a duty, with clear acceptance that it won't be a choice or pleasure for them? Or that the pleasure of those who wish to have sex with them should be their overriding concern and not their own preferences and boundaries?

It is what's happening though, to women and girls. It's just that we're being called transphobes for saying it.

For example the women in prison assaulted a biologically male rapist who decided that a women's prison was just the place and would suit him better.

Who spoke up for them?

MN.

Who spoke up for the autistic children being targeted by mermaids and stonewall?

MN.

Who spoke up for safeguarding policies being rushed through and changed in order to appease the baying mob of PC activists?

MN.

YANBU

YANBU