If you're female AIBU to ask if you're ok with male health professionals at all times and in any scenario?

[DockerDre]

It's just that question really.

I’m pointing out that fear and caution exists in women who haven’t been victims of rape or abuse because every day, all around us, men commit violent crimes and sexual crimes. Male harassment of women is routine and expected. Women go into a lot of situations with a lot more awareness and alertness than men.

You don’t have to have been traumatised by a man to have a healthy dose of caution around being alone in an intimate and vulnerable situation with one.

We live in a world where men degrade, victimise and abuse women regularly. It doesn’t happen the other way around beyond an extremely anomalous handful.

Women fearing men is reasonable. Women need to be able to choose female hcps. If accommodating that sometimes means that a male or female patient who would prefer a man can’t have one, that’s the price.

Bloody hell Captain, yes, we know the common thing all those in common is men usually do that, yes, but that doesn't mean all of them are scary and mean and so the baseline should be sex segregation for some things.
Now going to get accused of NAMALT but meh.
If some women are traumatised by men, of course they should be able to choose a female. If some don't want to for cultural reasons, again, of course they should be able to.
Just sex segregation isn't the way forward as not everyone wants that.
As it is now we can ask for who we like.
Which is all good.
Or at least you'd think.

I've had it with this thread, the lack of tolerance or understanding, the red herrings, the blah blah blah, the misdirection, it's all very disingenuous.

No I didn't.

You have consistently throughout the thread in your posts made it clear that for some things there should be segregation,
Regardless of your "caveats" when questioned you blatantly miss where that leaves people whose mum might have gone away for a while when their periods come on etc.
(You're the one who brought up periods in this instance before I get told off for going off topic as it's totally on topic)
What do they do? If it's for women only? Or the women who want to see a man rather than a woman at the doctors? Why sex segragation? We should be able to choose.
Thankfully as it is now we still can.

I've had it with this thread, the lack of tolerance or understanding, the red herrings, the blah blah blah, the misdirection, it's all very disingenuous.

I've said all the way through that we should always have the right to choose and of course anyone who is traumatised, vulnerable or for cultural/religious reasons should be able to choose whether they see a male or female.

BertrandRussell

Odd comment to make unless you see merit in it surely? So you were asking how about sex segregating for health care but you actually don't agree with it then?

CaptainBrickbeard

And I am talking about patients who request same sex HCPs because of embarrassment - which can occur in both men and women.

Not all women who request a female HCP are doing it out of fear or due to trauma. They are doing it only because they are embarrassed. As are men.

I am not saying embarrassment is the only reason for all patients. I am saying that where it is the only reason it is applicable to both sexes and should be respected as a valid choice, for both sexes, not minimised.

Sorry, the no I didn't bit on my other post was a bold fail - should have been bolded

I've said all the way through that we should always have the right to choose and of course anyone who is traumatised, vulnerable or for cultural/religious reasons should be able to choose whether they see a male or female.

It's so weird how those of us who are arguing for choice are being calked intolerant whilst the ones seeking to impose their choice on the rest of us are "right on" isn't it?

Anyone who wants to only see a female Dr, excellent. More power to you. And if that means that you are happy to see the shit female Dr rather than my excellent male Dr then good for you.

Me? I'll choose to see the best one available.

“Odd comment to make unless you see merit in it surely? So you were asking how about sex segregating for health care but you actually don't agree with it then?

Sorry. I forgot that you think you can read my mind. Even to the extent of kindly rewriting my posts so they say what you think I meant.

It's so weird how those of us who are arguing for choice are being calked intolerant whilst the ones seeking to impose their choice on the rest of us are "right on" isn't it?

Exactly, I don't think they realise that they're doing it
The one thing they're saying we're doing, taking choice away, is exactly what sex segregration would do!
We should all be able to choose. Which we can as it stands.
I much prefer male doctors, I have no idea why as I've never really thought about it before this thread!
Maybe it's because as a child I saw loads of doctors and they were mostly male and always kind and friendly?
I totally appreciate this is just me and my experience though.
Women choose female doctors, or male doctors.
The choice should always be there.

Here we are Bertrand

OK. So how about a situation where the expectation is that a HCP providing intimate care should be the same sex as the patient and anyone who wants the other sex can ask for that?

Your post, in it's entirety. How exactly have I re written it?

So are you in favour of it or not? From reading your post it looks to me like you are in favour of it but subsequently you appear to be saying that isn't what you think so I am confused. Maybe you could clarify?

And I’m saying that women don’t have to be traumatised to have good reason not to want a man treating them.

If I’m walking down a dark, deserted street late at night and I see a lone man then my response is different to if I see a woman. I’ll just be a bit more alert, maybe have my keys in my hand, try to walk confidently, try to remember that trick about calling the emergency services without dialling 999 on your phone, get to a well lit area ASAP...

I’ve never been attacked in that situation so my response isn’t based on previous trauma. It’s a sensible response though.

Say I’m really unlucky and that man is a rapist, I know that in the unlikely situation I get the case to court then every aspect of my personal life, my underwear choice, my decision to walk somewhere dark alone, my body’s response of freezing up instead of screaming or help will all be used against me and the likelihood is he will go unpunished. Maybe he’s a doctor and his professional position of responsibility will go in his favour.

My body feels that anxiety without me rationalising it. I’ve never been a victim, but I know to be cautious in that situation. And my body might just feel the same anxiety when I am worried about my health, partially dressed and a man is there examining me intimately and he has all the power and I feel I have none. Chances are, like the man on that street, he’s a perfectly decent man and nothing will happen. But plenty of women in that same situation have had the worst case scenario come true. I don’t feel comfortable and my discomfort is valid and important.

Outandabout I think I’m with you now on having had enough of the thread!

Right. Pay careful attention here. “How about” is inviting people to speculate on the scenario described. This is reinforced by the use of punctuation- a a question mark it is very common for posters to say “well, if you want a woman HCP then ask for one” I was wondering how people would react in a hypothetical situation where, if you wanted a male HCP you should ask for one. That is what I said, and that is what I meant. But I have no doubt you know better. I await your analysis of my thought processes with bated breath..........

I’m impressed so many of you get the choice of regularly seeing a doctor you know to be decent as opposed to another you think is shit. Like so many GP practices mine is now staffed by locums (possibly not right term - there are no partners or permanent staff) so the only way you have any say in who you see is it you ask for a female GP. Given no other info about the doctor, for something embarrassing I would also choose the unknown female doctor over the unknown male doctor.

And I’m saying that women don’t have to be traumatised to have good reason not to want a man treating them.

And I agree. And nor do men need to have any other reason not to want to be treated by a female. Likewise, I don't need to give a reason as to why I don't want to see a certain female Dr.

Bertrand

What are your views on your question then? Do you think that it is a good idea?

I was wondering how people would react in a hypothetical situation where, if you wanted a male HCP you should ask for one. That is what I said, and that is what I meant

Bertrand - that may have been a hypothetical question you posed, I'll take your word for it.
Your posts HAVE said that there is a need for sex segregation for "some things" whether you'll own the fact you have consistently presented that view not hypothetically, as fact all the way through.
It's there.
Don't speak for all of us.

Sex segregation in my opinion - bad.
Choice - GOOD.

we should always have the right to choose and of course anyone who is traumatised, vulnerable or for cultural/religious reasons should be able to choose whether they see a male or female.

No, just anyone full stop. No-one had to justify or explain their reasons, and I would argue any women with their pants off and legs spread is 'vulnerable'.

Frusty

Thankfully my surgery doesn't use locums. All of our drs are permanent though all of the female drs are part time so I would imagine there is a long wait if you specifically want to see one of them.

There are only 2 drs, 1 male and 1 female, who I refuse to see but other than that I will see whoever can see me first.

Surely me being willing to do that actually makes it better for those who only want to see a female Dr as their appointments are in such short supply anyway?

So how about a situation where the expectation is that a HCP providing intimate care should be the same sex as the patient and anyone who wants the other sex can ask for that?

This is such a mad idea. I have no problem at all with being treated by a male HCP, but would I go out of my way to request one? Probably not. So you would inevitably end up with female HCPs being oversubscribed and male HCPs twiddling their thumbs.

The rule should be that you get treated by whichever HCP happens to be available, male or female, unless for any reason whatsoever you specifically want a man or a woman, in which case your choice should be respected.

No, just anyone full stop. No-one had to justify or explain their reasons, and I would argue any women with their pants off and legs spread is 'vulnerable'

Yes, I also agree anyone should be able to choose.
I want to be able to see male doctors too.
So I should be able to. Not "sex segregation should be for some things" like has been said.
No. Choice for all.

The rule should be that you get treated by whichever HCP happens to be available, male or female, unless for any reason whatsoever you specifically want a man or a woman, in which case your choice should be respected

This. If you specifically want a man or woman, ask for one and that should be respected.
Default being to asking for a doctor and getting whichever unless you specify a preference.

Maybe the solution, then, would be that for every appointment you make you're asked specify male/female/no preference with the information given that a preference for one or other could result in longer waiting time?

Yes. The sex of a healthcare professional doesnt personally matter to me at all. I might ask for a different one if I really dislike someone, but that has only ever happened to me once and it was a woman. She was very rough with me trying to put in a coil and very harsh in tone when i was crying. I asked for someone else and got another woman who was lovely. I've never actually had any problems at all with men in healthcare settings. Had a lovely Male ultrasound guy, a lovely male anaesthetist, and a man who did my episiotomy was lovely.

I do think women should be able to request female staff only if they wish though.
I've been sexually assaulted by men and I've also been seriously physically assaulted by a man and although this fortunately hasn't led me to have a phobia of being in vulnerable situations with men I can see how it very easily could lead to that... and so I do think women should have the right to be seen only by women in medical settings.

I am fine in any circumstance, happy to have the best person for the job

If someone objected to a HCP because of their birth gender after they'd transitioned I'd feel quite differently.

Why? They haven’t changed sex. They’re still of the male sex and have been socialised in a different way from females. Why should I be judged on not wanting to have a man who identifies as trans, examine or treat me? Are you going to treat a woman, while having no idea of the reasons of her preference, as if they’re wrong? Would you actually want to prioritise the wants of a man who identifies as trans over the needs of a woman?

I’m shocked that nurse doesn’t know the difference between gender and sex, yet feels fit to judge women because of their choice of the SEX of their HCP.