If you're female AIBU to ask if you're ok with male health professionals at all times and in any scenario?

[DockerDre]

It's just that question really.

If the majority of men were made severely uncomfortable or re-traumatised being nursed by females then there would be a requirement for them to be able to access male staff on demand

That can only happen when sufficient numbers of male nurses are working in the profession though can't it?

You have missed the point. If there was a widespread need, then it would have been provided for right from the early days of the NHS.

But none of that means that I think women shouldn't have the absolute right to ask for female hcps

Same, they should always have the right to choose. Which wouldn't happen with some of the comments talking about sex segregation for certain things.
CHOICE is key.

Free choice for everyone is the ideal.

In reality, that isn’t going to happen.

So we need to ensure there are plenty of female midwives and coil fitters and encourage women into all fields of medicine.

People on this thread, though, keep on insisting that NOBODY should have a preference because they don't.

Have they? Where?

I have said, in this very specific case, where there is a choice between a shit female Dr or a good male Dr, that it would be better to have the good male Dr. But I wholeheartedly support choice.

In a recent post one poster said that male patients just have to accept intimate care from female nurses because that is a staffing issue - why isn't this the same? It is a staffing issue. There isn't a good female Dr so surely the best alternative is a good male Dr, not a shit female Dr?

I just can't see how, in this instance, anyone's needs are being met. I have a couple of friends that have seen this Dr and they both said how bad it was and that they won't see her again. How on earth is that meeting women's needs? It just isn't

Thinking on it the only time I have specified a preference when making an appointment is when I said "anyone but Dr ***. "
Female, and she was so dismissive and just.... hopeless lol. Had her a few times and then thought not seeing her any more if I can help it, I'll specify anyone but her.
Not because she was female, just because of her whole dismissive manner.
If she was the only female in the practice (and at a time she was) do I have to put up with seeing her just because she's female?
No I want to see the nice male doctor down the corridor instead of her please.

You have missed the point. If there was a widespread need, then it would have been provided for right from the early days of the NHS.

I think maybe you have missed the point - when the NHS started, and until relatively recently, nursing was a female occupation wasn't it? Men just didn't become nurses because it wasn't acceptable.

The male patients on my ward were uncomfortable. It was horrible for them having to be catheterised by a 20 something female nurse. Most of them did comment and when one of the male nurses were on duty often the patient's did request that they treated them, so, yes I think there is a need.

Decomposing the reason male patients have to put up with it and female patients shouldn’t have to in that particular scenario is because men and women are not on an equal footing. So their choices and preferences are not equal. I sympathise with those men and support their right to choose if possible.

But it is worse to force women to have their coils fitted by a man, good doctor or not, than for patients of either sex to have to accept a female hcp.

FFS you were able to, just as patients in the practice I go to have been able to see the male doctors rather than the brusque female one. Anyone'd think we wanted a gun to women's heads forcing them to go to females. This thread is fucking ridiculous, with straw men and twisting of what posters have said and extrapolating from one bad female doctor to the whole of the health system.

Every patient should have their boundaries respected.

If she was the only female in the practice (and at a time she was) do I have to put up with seeing her just because she's female

Exactly. No way do I want to be made to see a terrible Dr just because we are both female.

I want to see drs that I can talk to, have a rapport with, who understand me and who listen to me and are skilled and knowledgeable. For me, that is more important than anything else. If you choose that the sex of the Dr is more important then fair play to you. I totally support your right to choose on that basis, but don't force me to go along with you.

That was to whoever said they had a bad female doctor, the thread is moving fast

I don't want to see a bad/incompetent doctor regardless of sex.

But it is worse to force women to have their coils fitted by a man, good doctor or not, than for patients of either sex to have to accept a female hcp.

Is it? It's better to force a woman to have a coil fitted by a shit female Dr than by a good male Dr? Really?

And I don't agree that it's ok to force men to have female nurses. In a lot of cases women are choosing female HCPs not due to past trauma or fear but due to embarrassment and that is just as relevant to men.

If men needed male nurses it would have been acceptable for men to be nurses for men. Can you see you are painting yourself into a corner here?

FFS you were able to, just as patients in the practice I go to have been able to see the male doctors rather than the brusque female one. Anyone'd think we wanted a gun to women's heads forcing them to go to females.

The point is that in this case only 1 Dr in the practice can be allowed to do it so it was decided that it would be the female Dr. So no, there is no choice. If you don't want to see this 1 Dr tough luck.

And I was using this as an example of why I don't want Bertrand's idea of making female patients see only female drs implemented. Because I don't want to be forced to see only a female Dr even if she is shit whilst a really good male Dr sits up the corridor.

I'm not saying that this 1 female Dr represents all female drs. I have seen fantastic female drs. What I am saying is that this is what happens if you segregate on the basis of sex alone - you don't always get the right person for the job.

Nobody should have to see a crap doctor. The crapness is what needs addressing. And I honestly don’t see what one very specific case adds to the discussion. Of course if the practice can only afford to train one coil inserter it should be a woman. Nobody can possibly argue against that, can they?

"If someone objected to a HCP because of their birth gender after they'd transitioned I'd feel quite differently."

But there is no "birth gender" - you're a nurse, you should know this! Gender is pretend, and no matter what someone does, they can't change sex.

Some people "pass" better than others but normally there's just a degree of social kindness involved in ignoring it.

It's horrible that as a female nurse you'd "judge" women who couldn't feel comfortable with males who have declared themselves to be female.

“And I was using this as an example of why I don't want Bertrand's idea of making female patients see only female drs implemented.“
Yep. That’s exactly what I said. Thank you for representing my views so clearly.

If men needed male nurses it would have been acceptable for men to be nurses for men. Can you see you are painting yourself into a corner here?

Just think about that for a second. When did it become ok for women to become drs in the numbers that we have today? Does that mean 50 years ago women didn't want to see female drs?

Even when I trained 30 years ago, there were few female drs in the hospital where I trained and the only female consultants were obs and gynae, and even then in the minority. More female drs were coming through but all were junior.

So following your logic it's only recent that women have wanted female drs?

FFS you were able to, just as patients in the practice I go to have been able to see the male doctors rather than the brusque female one

Yes, I could. Which is great. Not if the posters who said they think that sex segregation is the way to go for some things got their own way though!

Of course if the practice can only afford to train one coil inserter it should be a woman. Nobody can possibly argue against that, can they?

So all of the patient's in the practice are stuck with this women then until she leaves? Who exactly is being served here?

If the practice can only have one coil fitter surely it should be the best person for the job?

Decomposing, you think the main factor is embarrassment and it affects men and women equally?

Turn on the news. What do you know about the perpetrators in the stories you will hear?

• a mass shooting claims a dozen lives.
• the body of an abducted child is found.
• a teenager has to use a colostomy bag for life after the recreation of a gang anal scene from pornography.
• a young woman is missing.
• a mother and her children had been stabbed to death.
• thousands of people download an app to prevent groping on public transport in Japan (who is being groped and who is doing the groping, do you think?)
• trafficked human slaves (adult and children) are sold for sex around the world: who is buying them?
• click onto a mainstream porn site: which sex is being choked, beaten, urinated on, called a slut, roughly penetrated in multiple orifices? Which sex is doing that to them? Which sex makes up the majority of viewers?
• Find me a woman who hasn’t been catcalled at the very least.

Women’s lives are shaped by awareness of male violence.

Men’s embarrassment does not come close.

Yep. That’s exactly what I said. Thank you for representing my views so clearly.

You did say that. You said the baseline should be sex segregation and if any of us would see a male Dr then we could request it.

Except that won't happen - as in this example. The baseline is a female Dr, who is shit.

I have no issue with the gender of a HCP as long as they're capable. If they're kind, that's a plus.

CaptainBrickbeard

And I was talking specifically about health care - how many mass shootings or gang raped have been committed by drs?

I also specifically excluded those who choose on the basis of trauma.

I said that a lot of posters on here have specifically said that they want a female Dr not because they have been assaulted, but because they are embarrassed to see a male Dr.

So are you also minimising their choice because embarrassment is a minor issue for you?

“You said the baseline should be sex segregation and if any of us would see a male Dr then we could request it.”

No I didn't. I said “How about a situation where.....” to see what people would say.