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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

If you're female AIBU to ask if you're ok with male health professionals at all times and in any scenario?

999 replies

DockerDre · 31/05/2019 19:03

It's just that question really.

OP posts:
sincethereis · 01/06/2019 07:46

@Passthecherrycokr

Men are overwhelmingly more likely to sexually assault patients of either sex

This to me is your only valid point and even then I’m not sure if it’s factually true (no studies/statistics etc ) but I agree it likely to be true.

mansplanning

A ridiculous idea made up by feminists that gets ridiculed.

Men don’t have female genitals/ periods/ pregnancies so have no idea what might hurt and how to be gentle. I’m sure many have learnt this over the course of their careers but imo, this is less reliable than a woman with a vagina doing it.

I get this to an extent but what’s not the job of a doctor. They job isn’t to have an idea of how painful it is really or be able to relate to the pain but to treat patients. They can do this without having experienced the same thing. Does this apply to cancer ? Or the treatment of cardiovascular disease? No, so why should it apply to women’s health ? I’ve never understood that.

Also, wouldn’t that make females less likely to deal with problems as they rise and dismiss them?

Sux2buthen · 01/06/2019 07:48

Yes 100. What is inside the underwear of the HCP is of no interest to me.

ChillaxingInMyKimono · 01/06/2019 07:52

Mansplaining only gets ridiculed by mansplainers, mansplaining that it couldn't, possibly, happen.

PinguForPresident · 01/06/2019 08:15

I'm fine with any HCP treating me. It makes no difference.

I avoid one particular GP at my surgery, but that's becasue he's a total dick, not because he's male.

I do wonder why people are averse to male midwives, when a large percentage of obstetricians are male. Men deliver babies all the time, how is it ok if they're a Dr, but less ok if they're a midwife?

Littletabbyocelot · 01/06/2019 08:16

I had a fantastic male gp when I was going through major gynae issues that also impacted my bowel so I had frequent internal checks and embarrassingly detailed conversations. He was so effective, caring and proactive that having seen him twice I asked for him every time. I thought that I had no issues with male hcp but there are two situations where I wanted a female.

I needed a scan to confirm whether the issue had come back. I was scared (it affected fertility and my ability to live a normal life) so I wanted my partner with me. The male hcp was OK with this for the abdominal scan but insisted he left for the internal. The way he acted creeped me out, like he wasn't comfortable doing an internal scan in front of my partner. I'd been accompanied before so it wasn't hospital policy. I wish I'd demanded a chaperone.

The other was while trying to establish breastfeeding with slightly prem twins. The midwife showed me how to hand express by hand expressing me herself. It was a very odd experience and I could not have had a male hcp do it.

CaptainBrickbeard · 01/06/2019 08:28

I’m really concerned by the dismissive tone some people take and the minimising of differences to ‘what is in their pants’. Genitals are not the only difference between men and women. The suggestion that lesbian or bisexual female doctors are predatory is truly horrifying. It isn’t sexual attraction towards women that causes predatory behaviour. It’s about power, control and male entitlement. Female sexual offenders are in a vanishingly small minority - 98% of sexual crime and most violent crime is carried out by men. Women are right to be cautious around men and to uphold their boundaries. Is outrageous for other women to smugly and callously dismiss this with snide comments about ‘I don’t care what’s in their underwear’.

I’m also frustrated by the repeated assertion of ‘its competence that counts, not sex’. People receiving healthcare are often worried, anxious, frightened and vulnerable. It can be humiliating to be exposed and put in various positions for invasive procedures to be carried out. Being a doctor or nurse or consultant is not just about competence. It is about sensitivity, bedside manner, kindness and empathy as well. I’ve had wonderful male hcps treat me and my children who have all of these qualities in spades so I’m not saying it is a male-female divide, though funnily enough the only arrogant and rude male consultants I’ve encountered were those working in gynaecology. But there is a lot more to being a good doctor than pure competence and again, women should not be ridiculed or dismissed for wanting other qualities in whoever is delivering their treatment as well. Some women will never be comfortable with a male hcp. That should be respected.

Finally, the phrase ‘socially constructed ideas of privacy’ upthread is one of the most chilling things I have ever read. It makes the ulterior motive and agenda absolutely clear. Privacy is not a silly little idea formed out of social conditioning. It is absolutely vital for women’s safety and dignity.

I have sons; I’m married to a man. I have overwhelmingly positive experiences of men in my life. But I read the news. I followed the Me Too movement. I work with teenage girls. I understand that men pose a terrible threat to women - not all men, sure. But I know that men are upskirting, groping, catcalling, abusing and assaulting women in numbers that absolutely dwarf any predatory behaviour by women. I know that men will film and photograph women without their knowledge and consent. I know that men are the major consumers of violent, degrading pornography in which women are routinely tortured and humiliated as a matter of course in mainstream videos on mainstream sites and it is not happening to male performers on anything like the same scale. I know that women are trafficked, exploited and raped and that it is men who drive this trade and profit from it.

Not all men. Not the men that I know and love in my life. But predators do not wear a sign. Many, many of them are professional people who exploit their respectability and their power to access victims.

Just because a man is a competent professional does not mean he is not a predator or an abuser. I don’t see danger everywhere I go; I don’t routinely fear or shrink from men. But if I find myself in a vulnerable position with an unknown man, my instincts will tell me to be afraid. If that’s in a healthcare setting, I might want a female treating me and that is a right all women have.

When men stop harassing and attacking women; when I don’t read about little girls in India raped and murdered in toilets, when I don’t see tweets describing the everyday harassment of women going about their normal life, when I don’t pick up a newspaper and see rape and assault every single day committed by men against women, when men stand up and condemn pornography, when drug addicted and desperate women are not rented by men for sex, when women are not abducted and sold across the world - when we are truly on an equal footing then I’ll be blade as anyone else about my doctor being a man.

We aren’t there yet.

SarahTancredi · 01/06/2019 08:29

I guess it depends really. I couldn't say for definite until I have met them.

The last male HCP who gave me an internal examination was really rough . I didnt have chaperone either so I was alone in the hospital room with a man who gave a rough internal. I've had I've repeatedly ask male sonographer to not press so bloody hard too. They really hurt me.

I also had a Male nurse or porter wheel me across the car park in full view of all the people coming and going.

That was unnecessary as the lovely young lad who took me the time after was extremely careful with the pushing and took me via the corridors and was pretty shocked to hear I'd been taken across the car park.

I would definitely chose a female dr for my dds until.they were old enough to decide.

Fir me it totally depends on the dr. I've yet to meet one I'd be fully comfortable with performing exams on me.

CaptainBrickbeard · 01/06/2019 08:31

blase not blade.

Helmetbymidnight · 01/06/2019 08:33

brilliant post, captain.

redexpat · 01/06/2019 08:34

As a pp stated if my underwear is on Im ok with a man. Anything intimate Im not.

ChillaxingInMyKimono · 01/06/2019 08:35

Amazing post @CaptainBrickbeard Thanks

redexpat · 01/06/2019 08:37

Bloody good post captain.

IStillMissBlockbuster · 01/06/2019 08:38

What captain said.

soulrunner · 01/06/2019 08:44

I guess in the nhs I’d probably have to take what I got but when I was pregnant ( overseas/ private system) I chose a female obstetrician and see a female gynae so I guess I do have a preference.

BertrandRussell · 01/06/2019 08:45

Fantastic post, Captain. Thank you for writing it.

I too am terrified by the phrase ‘socially constructed ideas of privacy’. Does that apply to everyone- including children? Or is it just women?

LarryGreysonsDoor · 01/06/2019 08:47

👏 👏 👏 Captain.

mathanxiety · 01/06/2019 08:48

Brilliant post, Captain.

CaptainBrickbeard · 01/06/2019 08:48

Bertrand, judging by the people using that phrase I suspect it’s women and children’s privacy in the firing line...no surprises there! I hope that if people really stopped to think about the ramifications of dismantling privacy, they would understand what a truly horrific thing they are suggesting. It’s a phrase that originated from sexual predators and it serves no agenda but theirs.

Fuckedoffat48b · 01/06/2019 08:54

I wouldn't want a male midwife, but that really is the only time I would care.

BertrandRussell · 01/06/2019 08:54

Yep. In my head it’s said in Peter Tatchell’s voice.

Babdoc · 01/06/2019 08:56

It doesn’t matter whether I, or any other PP, is happy with male hcps.
What matters is that some women are NOT.
And they should (wherever staffing permits) have their needs respected.
This may include rape survivors, women from certain religions, or just women with boundaries who would feel uncomfortable.
When I worked in the NHS, (I’m retired now) I was happy to rearrange theatre teams to provide an all female staff when necessary. The most recent one I remember was a Muslim victim of fgm, who not only needed a female team but wouldn’t remove her abaya until she was secluded in the anaesthetic room with my nurse, and concealed under a sheet.
This is why I get so angry at male trans rights activists trying to demand access to jobs in (for example) rape crisis centres. Their demands for “validation” seem to trump the needs of traumatised women for all-female care.

freshstartnewme · 01/06/2019 08:56

Captain

Absolutely brilliant post.

justju · 01/06/2019 09:05

the phrase ‘socially constructed ideas of privacy’ upthread is one of the most chilling things I have ever read. It makes the ulterior motive and agenda absolutely clear. Privacy is not a silly little idea formed out of social conditioning. It is absolutely vital for women’s safety and dignity.

^ this a thousand times. Fucking well said, captain.

justju · 01/06/2019 09:14

Also anyone who says privacy is socially constructed - I assume you never lock your doors at night? Never ever draw the curtains or close the toilet door? Wouldn't care less about being stark naked 24/7 in front of all the world?

Privacy is not some quirky precious little girl thing, and there's no reason why healthcare should disregard it if it can help it.

OhTheRoses · 01/06/2019 09:17

Don't mind. The key is communication and professionalism.