To not feel happy with gender neutral toilets at work?

[BalletBunting]

My company has recently relabelled all toilets on my floor as 'gender neutral'. As well as being rather confused as to what the need is for them (there are no trans people at my work as far as I'm aware) I don't like them, and I would prefer to keep the ladies loo as is. The nearest women's toilets is 3 floors up now!

I don't really feel comfortable going to the loo knowing that there are men in there but I don't really know how to bring this up and with who. I work for a large media company, fairly young/progressive and I don't want to cause trouble for myself.

There was also absolutely no consultation regarding the change. If anyone has been in a similar situation and managed to come to a different solution? Or AIBU and should drop it?

As for the best way to deal with the issue, I don’t know. But I think treating them with some respect is a good start

Yes, I agree. I agree there is a stigma to be trans unfortunately and that it just be very distressing. But it also needs for that respect to be mutual and acknowledge that women who raise concerns about women only spaces and access to them are not hysterical bigots, and try to have some constructive discussion.

*must be

But at the moment, you’re the modern day equivalent of the women who campaigned against the suffragettes. Tragic.

This, exactly.

manners I’d still like you to try that thought experiment that I suggested.

1/Can you say, hand on heart, that you truly believe that TRAs would have gained the traction and influence they have if it were purely about the rights of a subset of females?

2/Would the multi-billionaire males bankrolling the movement have done so if it were purely about the rights of a subset of females to identify as male?

Can you give me an honest yes/no answer to those two questions? I’d really like to know how you see this.

I worry that a lot of these trans people included in these studies are vulnerable and have this dream that if they can just become a woman/man everything will be OK instead of really addressing the problems. Like the problem with society deciding that girls like A and boys like B and if you don't conform, you're wrong.

mannersmakeththepig
The links from the Stonewall site to the suicide report don't work. Do you have a direct link to it? You might find this analysis of some of these reports interesting.
www.transgendertrend.com/the-suicide-myth/

manners
You are definitely on the wrong side of this. You don’t realise you are and that’s incredibly sad. This absolutely is the part of same issue as what is happening in places like Alabama and male on female assault and violence. You have decided to cherry pick which women’s boundaries to respect and which to reject just because you don’t agree with them. No one should have the right to do this. I totally agree you are the modern day anti suffragette.

Talking
Epic post. Brilliant.

I worry that a lot of these trans people included in these studies are vulnerable and have this dream that if they can just become a woman/man everything will be OK instead of really addressing the problems.

And some of the suicide ideation might come from them realising that transition isn't the panacea they've been promised.

Exactly @OldCrone.

In a regular work setting I think I'd be ok with this provided no inappropriate behaviour was present.

However, I would not like a unisex public toilet / in McDonalds / in a pub. I'd not know the people around and therefore not have basic trust of them. I'd also be quite scared of being sexually assaulted or just leered at.

I think it's perfectly fine a woman wanting to have her own space. Nobody should infringe their beliefs on others.

I thought Tavistock had confirmed that they have only ever had one incident of suicide?

And some of the suicide ideation might come from them realising that transition isn't the panacea they've been promised.^^

Given that there are some studies which suggest it goes up, not down after transitioning this seems plausible.

Tavistock is just children up to a certain age though I think.

I'm honestly not trying to be insensitive here but if suicide is so high within the trans community then how are there even any trans people left?

Trans people are a very small percentage of the population to start with. If they really are committing suicide in such high numbers then it should follow there shouldn't be any left.

And that's not even getting into the alleged high chance of being murdered stats which are also often thrown around in these discussions...

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that the suicide rates are nowhere close to what they are reported.

I literally couldn’t give fewer fucks about what you think. I was here to address some of the unsubstantiated nonsense being flung around about a marginalised group of people and counter some of the tabloid BS about the danger posed to women.

Which I have done, but now it’s all getting circular and boring. Some of you should read some papers of the scientific variety, rather than red topped.

Happy seeing, one and all!

I believe Tavistock provides support up until early 20's?

And we are constantly told that trans children and teenagers will very likely commit suicide if we don't validate their identity. But if Tavistock have confirmed that only one young person under their care has commited suicide then that can't be the case.

manners

Totally up to you who you engage with in a thread but I haven’t flung any tabloid BS about anyone and yet you’ve ignored me. This gives the impression you prefer to just lump everyone together and dismiss everyone as mean or whatever rather than meaningfully reflect on the issues.

manners surely you’re not dodging those questions of mine, are you? But how? But why?

Surely it can’t be because you’re not quite deep enough in the lie to be able to answer yes, but you know that answering no would expose your entire argument to be bullshit? Surely not that?

Some of you should read some papers of the scientific variety, rather than red topped.

Oh please provide some, rather than the biased ones with poor methodology you have used to make your own sweeping judgements while dismissing the views of others. Happy wokeing!

And we are constantly told that trans children and teenagers will very likely commit suicide if we don't validate their identity.

I agree with you, it's pure propaganda used as emotional blackmail.

It's frequently referred to as "suicide rate" but even putting all issues aside it's suicide attempt rate, not completed suicides.

I literally couldn’t give fewer fucks about what you think

Something we can agree on! Likewise.

Some of you should read some papers of the scientific variety, rather than red topped.

I know, Eresh! 🤣🤣🤣

Here we are, us poor ignorant, uneducated bigots, basking in the warmth of the extraordinary compassion and intellect that are Manners’, and her “scientific papers” - she’s the one to lead us out of our darkness, sure enough!

@ereshkigal I did. Have a read upthread. And I would love to hear your take-down of the Lancet paper. Go on, I’m sure you’ll do a better job than the peers that reviewed it

@talkinginthedark

1. No
2. No

But I think both those things are irrelevant to the core issue of this thread, which is that:

• current evidence doesn’t support the idea that mixed sex toilets are more dangerous to women
• evidence does support the idea that marginalised communities (incl trans) that face discrimination are more likely to have mental health issues (including attempting suicide, which is what the stats I posted upthread refer to, for those of you trying to justify yourselves because ‘only one kid killed themselves’)

I agree with you, it's pure propaganda used as emotional blackmail.

What an awful thing to say. Great job minimizing suicide like that and dismissing those people (trans or not) who are suffering.

It's frequently referred to as "suicide rate" but even putting all issues aside it's suicide attempt rate, not completed suicides.

So according to you, attempting suicide shouldn't be taking seriously then?