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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To not feel happy with gender neutral toilets at work?

778 replies

BalletBunting · 30/05/2019 13:01

My company has recently relabelled all toilets on my floor as 'gender neutral'. As well as being rather confused as to what the need is for them (there are no trans people at my work as far as I'm aware) I don't like them, and I would prefer to keep the ladies loo as is. The nearest women's toilets is 3 floors up now!

I don't really feel comfortable going to the loo knowing that there are men in there but I don't really know how to bring this up and with who. I work for a large media company, fairly young/progressive and I don't want to cause trouble for myself.

There was also absolutely no consultation regarding the change. If anyone has been in a similar situation and managed to come to a different solution? Or AIBU and should drop it?

OP posts:
ArabellaDoreenFig · 30/05/2019 22:58

mannersmakeththepig

Are you a male by any chance ?

Helmetbymidnight · 30/05/2019 23:02

its like when people say its not an issue to have men competing in women's sports.
theyre like- 'theres no evidence that this will harm womens sport' despite the fact that the vast vast majority of sports records are held by men.

so the vast majority of attacks on women are by men- 97%? - but women should no longer be allowed to have separate toilets until there is clear evidence that women and girls are being attacked in unisex toilets.

staggering.

wow- the misogyny is strong in this one.

Ereshkigal · 30/05/2019 23:04

Personally I’d prefer it if we could have gender seperated toilet and everyone got a lot more tolerant, but that doesn’t seem to be happening.

Personally I'd prefer it if women's feelings were respected and people didn't assume that they can give consent to males in their spaces on their behalf and tell them how they should feel about it.

And no MTF trans are not at more risk of violence than women, and that's generally not why they want into the women's toilets. They want to be validated as "women". You're very naive, and as I said, quite cavalier with other women's rights to privacy and dignity.

mannersmakeththepig · 30/05/2019 23:04

@scottishdoll

You referring to me?

I gave several reasons I think it’s a good idea further up the thread.

Helmetbymidnight · 30/05/2019 23:05

Just reinforces everything that is said over in FWR to be honest

absolutely.

Ereshkigal · 30/05/2019 23:05

Only someone who wants to justify removing female spaces would say that.

Like most Guardian writers.

Ereshkigal · 30/05/2019 23:07

aren’t countries where women are known for being treated with equal respect as men.

Like the UK you mean?

ArabellaDoreenFig · 30/05/2019 23:07

Walkingdeadfangirl

Having sex-segregated spaces in nothing to do with equality- it is to do with the reasons and rights behind those spaces.

Women are entitled to single sex provisions in law, the reasons for this are for safety, privacy and dignity, and it is foolish to wave those rights away under the guise of being ‘inclusive’.

Feminism and equality isn’t about being the same as the men it is about leveling the playing field.

mannersmakeththepig · 30/05/2019 23:14

No @arabella I’m not. I’m a feminist and I am a scientist.

What does it matter?

I don’t think it does. But what does matter is people spouting unsubstantiated and dangerous BS that they can’t support with evidence, and then accusing anyone who disagrees of being male or some sort of idiot who doesn’t get how subjugated she is.

Suggesting that women are in more danger because they share a handbasin with male colleagues is nonsense, and anyone with half a brain knows it.

I even linked to a peer reviewed scientific review that found it to be nonsense in a particular place, and asked you to begin a dialogue with some of your evidence. But instead you for some weird personal attack on me.

So way to go, sister. 👊🏻

Ereshkigal · 30/05/2019 23:14

wow- the misogyny is strong in this one.

TalkingintheDark had that poster bang to rights.

Ereshkigal · 30/05/2019 23:17

I think we're talking about eroding women's spaces in general not just "sharing a handbasin with male colleagues". You missed the bold text posted by other posters several times, obviously.

There is no good reason to make toilets mixed sex.

ScottishDoll · 30/05/2019 23:19

It's always the same for this topic isn't it?

Bunch of people wishing to preserve single sex spaces, uncomfortable with the reality of mixed sex provision being forced instead.

A tiny few posters insisting mixed sex isn't a problem and insulting women who want to preserve single sex spaces.

No reason for change to mixed sex space given except that men who identify as transgender do not wish to share with men who do not indentify as transgender, because we should be nicer to these men than we should be to uncomfortable women, and times change.

Still not seeing any good reason why women should sacrifice their right to privacy and dignity and return to the urinary leash and a life of restriction (as many people with disabilities already are due to closures and a lack of appropriate facilities).

mannersmakeththepig · 30/05/2019 23:20

Ah yes, anyone who doesn’t actually believe all men are rapists-in-waiting must be a misogynist. Anyone who prefers to base her thoughts on evidence and statistics and data instead of
fear mongering and tabloid shitstorms must be a misogynist. But of course!

How very astute of you, dear.

Rufusthebewilderedreindeer · 30/05/2019 23:23

Ah yes, anyone who doesn’t actually believe all men are rapists

I doubt that anyone on the thread thinks all men are rapists

AutumnCrow · 30/05/2019 23:25

I’m a feminist and I am a scientist

Ooh me too. I happen to think women should be allowed their own boundaries without being slagged off for wanting them.

Ihaventgottimeforthis · 30/05/2019 23:26

Basically, unless women can prove they are more likely to get raped, they need to share their spaces with anyone.
Because to be honest, unless you're actually getting assaulted, you should be happy.
If you just feel embarrassed, or unsafe, or worried, or a bit awkward, or just prefer not to have men around when you're changing your tampon and feeling rough in the loos, then suck it up.
Wait until you've been assaulted, THEN complain about it.

Ereshkigal · 30/05/2019 23:26

I have a dad, two brothers, male friends and colleagues and a boyfriend. To my knowledge I personally don't think any of them are rapists (although obviously I might not be aware). But other women wouldn't have the same reason as me to think that. How would they know?

ArabellaDoreenFig · 30/05/2019 23:26

mannersmakeththepig

Asking if you are male is a weird personal attack how exactly?

Ihaventgottimeforthis · 30/05/2019 23:27

Fucking hell.

Ereshkigal · 30/05/2019 23:27

What Ihaventgottimeforthis said.

Ereshkigal · 30/05/2019 23:29

The first time, but the second time works too! Grin

Ihaventgottimeforthis · 30/05/2019 23:30

Ereshkigal Grin and yet also Angry

Usuallyinthemiddle · 30/05/2019 23:31

Aren't men entitled to their own space too? We're so caught up in women's rights. Men might also prefer their own space. They have feelings and sensitivities too. Equality isn't putting women first.

mannersmakeththepig · 30/05/2019 23:31

The only person being insulted seems to be me @scottishdoll and I certainly haven’t insulted anyone.

I’ve just tried to have a reasoned discussion based on evidence.

In return, I’ve been told I’m too stupid to understand I’m being controlled by the man, asked if I’m a man (not sure of the relevance), described as a misogynist and you made some weird comment about my user name.

Have your single sex bathrooms, stay in your lane, fight against another maligned group, make a big fuss about nothing. Whatever you do, keep concentrating on your bathroom facilities and not the toxic rape culture or gender pay gap or any of the important stuff...

And for those of you who think GN bathrooms are the thin edge of the wedge - wake up. The wedge is already firmly in place. Segregated spaces reinforce the concept of otherness that has permeated forever. And guess what - women have never been the ‘other’ that’s on top.

Ereshkigal · 30/05/2019 23:32

Aren't men entitled to their own space too? We're so caught up in women's rights. Men might also prefer their own space. They have feelings and sensitivities too. Equality isn't putting women first.

I've always thought men should be entitled to their own space. But the power dynamic isn't the same.