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Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To be deeply disappointed in John Cleese

999 replies

drspouse · 29/05/2019 23:06

I have no idea if this is typical but he just tweeted that London isn't an English city any more
What is it then pray tell? What's not English about it??

OP posts:
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7
continuallychargingmyphone · 30/05/2019 07:54

I was a big fan of OFAH and I have been to Peckham in 2009, so ten years ago now. It had obviously changed pretty dramatically.

Pointless2 · 30/05/2019 08:02

it's a fact is it not that the London knife crime epidemic has accelerated only since European gangs arrived.

No, it isn’t.

Backwoodsgirl · 30/05/2019 08:08

I am a Brit in the US, I have spent the last 10 days back in London, I agree with him. London has become disconnected with the UK. It’s the capital, but does not represent the country.

London is a overpopulated hellscape, crime seems to be a massive problem. I looked at the stats, I am 9 times more likely to get stabbed in London than shot in my home state.

howwudufeel · 30/05/2019 08:40

I used to live in London and still visit very regularly. It is very different to how it was 25 years ago. I appreciate that places evolve. Certainly my home town and the city I now live in are unrecognisable from how they were years ago. The difference is that they have changed for the better. London has a very stressed feel to it. On a very short recent visit I witnessed several frightening incidents including one in a tube carriage. This is not the fault of any particular group of people but this is the inevitable result of extreme overcrowding. People have to live in cramped, extortionately expensive housing. It’s tough to access primary healthcare. Wages are low. London needs a great big hug because it is really suffering G the moment.

hilbobaggins · 30/05/2019 08:47

I’m a born and bred Londoner who has lived here for 50 years. I think JC is on to something really important, but we’re all so indoctrinated with the “diversity is our strength” mantra (I notice that this was the first thing the useless Sadie Khan said in response, it’s his go-to phrase for ANY problem that arises in the city) that his comments are immediately dismissed as racist which they most definitely aren’t. Frankly I think we need to question that mantra much more, but for some people it is now a kind of religion and you can be “excommunicated” for suggesting that you don’t 100% believe in it.

Of course London has long been an open and international city but things have changed dramatically over the last 20 years, and not for the better. I do not feel as if this is a fabulously integrated community any more - in fact my area, and our local school, really lacks a sense of community at all these days.

As more and more people flood in from all over the world it is inevitable that a culture is watered down. I think this is what JC is getting at, and it’s an important point. There is such a thing as English culture, and many parts of that culture are good and important, and in London I sometimes feel that it is slipping away. Maybe that doesn’t matter to people any more, but once gone it is lost forever, and that makes me feel pretty sad.

LordProfFekkoThePenguinPhD · 30/05/2019 08:47

Where doesn’t change though? I was brought up in another place - my town and closest city have changed a hell of a lot since I lived these. It’s the way of the world surely.

Pointless2 · 30/05/2019 08:53

once gone it is lost forever, and that makes me feel pretty sad.

Lots of London is still English. Some areas mainly English.

Added to which, what some people might count as “foreign” is in fact not, but people who are 2nd and 3rd generation immigrants. They might not be pie and mash eating Brits (to be flippant), but they are Brits nonetheless. Often here because of this country’s colonial history.

hilbobaggins · 30/05/2019 09:04

But surely it’s the pace of change, LordProfFekko, and the fact that everyone is supposed to be delighted with our ever-increasing “diversity” all the time, and that you’re not ever really supposed to question it. We didn’t get a proper chance to decide as a country whether this is the direction we wanted to go in. The resulting anger at least partly explains Brexit in my view.

And I’m not an expert at all but I don’t think it is necessarily “the way of the world”. Poland and Japan are two countries that come to mind as not at all keen on letting the entire world come and live in their countries. Not much banging on about diversity in those countries, i’d imagine.

noodlenosefraggle · 30/05/2019 09:15

I agree with you about the overcrowding in London. I don't live here now but am back. I've spent hardly any time in Central London because its so stressful. But Japan and Poland are both having to revise their views on immigration. In Japan because of their ageing population and in Poland because so many of their young people have left, so both are facing a demographic time bomb.

RosaWaiting · 30/05/2019 09:17

I posted on the other thread, but I don't know what "diversity" means any more.

Branleuse · 30/05/2019 09:17

I dont think ANY capital cities are representative of their country. Theyre all big melting pots, but London especially has always been very much so

longwayoff · 30/05/2019 09:26

On the other hand, if he's talking about buildings, not people, I curse every one of those developers who have been allowed to disfigure our city with their hideous high rise offices and blocks of empty, ugly, flats. Other cities have respect for their skylines and long views. Walking over Waterloo bridge is now utterly depressing, look east, look west, huge lego buildings. Vile.

hilbobaggins · 30/05/2019 09:31

I think from his subsequent comments he is very much referring to English culture, not race. He talks about the country and city of his childhood being quieter, more restrained, politer, more humorous, less “tabloid”. I don’t think he can be criticised for this observation.

Orangeballon · 30/05/2019 09:32

He is absolutely correct, London is full of foreign people, you don’t see many actual Londoners any more.

morallybankruptme · 30/05/2019 09:35

Umm it's not. But why are you so offended op?

Songsofexperience · 30/05/2019 09:38

Even in the golden age of Pearly Kings and Queens walking down the street singing 'cor blimey guv'nor' there were still lots of areas of London heavily populated by non-English people and cultures.
Aren't cockneys themselves the descendants of French Huguenot settlers anyway? (Oh shock horror 😀)

woman19 · 30/05/2019 09:41

He is absolutely correct, London is full of foreign people, you don’t see many actual Londoners any more

Incorrect, but this sort of inaccuracy is included in MOD list of features of right wing extremists, who we don't want in our British Army. Smile

Helpful advice here for posters and Mumsnet.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7082855/British-army-officers-told-soldiers-calling-patriots-extremists.html

nothingtowearever · 30/05/2019 09:41

They say Londoners don't speak to anyone, that's because no one speak English! Was horrible living there!

Outofinspiration · 30/05/2019 09:41

He is absolutely correct, London is full of foreign people, you don’t see many actual Londoners any more.

What is a 'Londoner'? Can you only be a Londoner if you are white and eat jellied eels?

BlandingsEmpress · 30/05/2019 09:41

Kingslayer

I love listening to all of the languages used on public transport. Why are people so fearful about it? Goes hand in hand with the massive fall in our students learning modern foreign languages. Sad.

nothingtowearever · 30/05/2019 09:42

Speaks*

LordProfFekkoThePenguinPhD · 30/05/2019 09:48

I live in London and my English is fucking ace.

RiversDisguise · 30/05/2019 09:48

Saw him live about 12 years ago. He was curiously unlikable and unfunny, and dragged his daighter on to do a tedious set in the middle while he sat aloof and looked bored. It was a shock to me as I grew up worshipping his comedy.

Since then, I've noticed that he goes out of his way to be a pompous twat whenever he can.

He has either forgotten how to be funny, or he was just a good actor and his writing partners came up with the good stuff.

Cherrysoup · 30/05/2019 09:49

Are people not white enough for him?
Because most people speak English.

Since when are the two mutually exclusive??

I’m not sure how many stabbing have been linked to ‘European gangs’?

Sod all, frankly. The majority of stabbings in London this year have involved black English youths.

Mookie81 · 30/05/2019 09:50

A lot of the people on here deriding his remarks are assuming that people who have a problem with immigration are white and only want white English people around them.
As I've stated above I'm non-white (white and black mixed, more black actually) and for me someone is English if they've been born and raised in England. This includes being able to speak the language and being integrated.
I teach 4 and 5 year olds who have been born and raised in England who barely speak a word of English. This is ridiculous to me and displays a worrying lack of integration. There are whole areas that are made up of a different minority groups. This is no better than completely white English areas; they would both make me uncomfortable to live in.
I do believe that, although there are people who voted for other reasons, these issues were the main reason people voted for Brexit. It's disingenuous to suggest otherwise.

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