To be deeply disappointed in John Cleese

[drspouse]

I have no idea if this is typical but he just tweeted that London isn't an English city any more
What is it then pray tell? What's not English about it??

@IsabellaLinton- I’ve tried to find any reference to Muslims not being able to share a table with Christians, and it seems that they definitely can. I think you need to go into the school all guns blazing and put a stop to the outrageous bullying your dd is suffering. Good luck with it.

I’ve tried to find any reference to Muslims not being able to share a table with Christians, and it seems that they definitely can

Given that Jesus is a prophet in Islam, then ill treating his (His) followers is most definitely not part of Islam. It might be part of the culture in some parts of the world but that's not the same thing.

I’ve heard of the special status of ‘Peoples of the Book’ in Islam before. It sees to have done wonders over the past few centuries for preserving different religious identities and keeping some cross-cultural dialogue open in the Near and Middle East. Some current Islamic trends seem unusual in that light.

I wonder if it is a cultural thing with girls not being allowed to sit with non Muslim girls for fear of being exposed to 'western' ways. That was certainly my experience when I was a child. But again, it's not a religious thing, rather parents making sure their daughters are not integrated into Western society. As with all unacceptable cultural practices and attitudes, they need to be clearly unacceptable.

wonder if it is a cultural thing with girls not being allowed to sit with non Muslim girls for fear of being exposed to 'western' ways

Cultural - not religious then.

Religions tend to be quite positive - love thy neighbour etc etc. However some cultures that appropriate them aren't. They are vile, misogynistic, cruel and need to be called out wherever they are found. Even if that's in England.

@Avala2019 absolutely and training up people here to do the jobs and giving them opportunities

DarkAtEndOfTunnel- do u mean the wars of the roses of the Plantagenets?

I found this link about the British Empire and some positives.

I think the funeral pyre one was a particularly good one.

I agree that there were negatives.

I

listverse.com/2016/08/01/top-10-things-the-british-empire-got-right/

@MatthewBramble that’s possibly the most pompous post I have ever read on Mumsnet. You are not a great advert for Londoners.

Thank you**@howwudufeel*. Compliments are always welcome.

I stand by what I said. Cleese is a music hall comedian, nothing more. His opinion of what London is, or is not, is of no more validity than anyone else's. Had he been born and brought up in London, rather than is a seaside resort and had some experience of living in London other than in the more expensive up-market central districts (I believe he has a flat in Covent Garden), his opinion might have some validity.

I am really quite angry with myself for being drawn into disagreeing with you MatthewBramble but The Frost Report and Monty Python changed the face of comedy, not just in the UK but all over the world. Whatever you think of the man, it’s somewhat reductive to describe him as a music hall performer.

Had he been born and brought up in London, rather than is a seaside resort and had some experience of living in London other than in the more expensive up-market central districts (I believe he has a flat in Covent Garden), his opinion might have some validity.

So you're saying that only born and bred Londoners are allowed an opinion, then Matthew? Suits me. Unfortunately it will also suit UKIP and the EDL.

@IsabellaLinton I just wanted to make sure you saw the comments on the bullying your dd is experiencing. I hope people’s comments encourage you to take it further. There is no way she should have to put up with that.

Fair enough!

"It must be a particularly unpleasant sect."

I don't know if you are pretending to be this naïve or not, but this type of behavior is well-known - especially when that religion is in the ascendancy. Non-muslims are unclean, therefore it follows that what Isabella's daughter is experiencing is inevitable unless the school nips it in the bud. But even then, she will be made to feel unwelcome on their table.

"Over half of British Muslims surveyed wanted homosexuality to be criminalised again"

It's more than half. There was a recent documentary in which the imam asks varies questions and the congregation raises their hands or not. On this particular question, it was 100 percent. You may say that everyone felt they needed to raise their hands in agreement, otherwise they would feel uncomfortable, even shunned, at the mosque.

Homosexuality, criminalized or not, is absolutely not permitted in Islam. To be seen as having a different opinion, would cause problems for that individual.

I bow to your superior knowledge. I personally have never come across Muslims who refuse to share a table with Christians, but if you know it to be a thing it must be. Still bullying though and up to the school to sort.

“Homosexuality, criminalized or not, is absolutely not permitted in Islam”

Not in Christianity either.

However, I bow

"Endless tolerance of intolerance behaviour is not the answer. It’s weakness. It’s profoundly silly and childish. If we do not stand firm behind our Western values, the best values, we’re doomed."

Isaballa, I agree entirely. Just as some parents don't really want to parent and prefer to be "friends" with their children, the same with standing firm behind our country's values and pushing aside declarations of obnoxious and cruel attitudes and practices popular in countries on the other side of the world. As someone on MN said, there is NO cultural equivalence between forced marriage at 15 or permission to beat daughter and wife, and what we have in the West.

It was Maajid Nawaz who coined the phrase Regressive Left. It describes a section of left-wing politics which paradoxically holds reactionary views by their tolerance of illiberal principles and ideologies, particularly tolerance of Islamism, FOR THE SAKE OF multiculturalism and cultural relativism. The RL has thrown several sections of our society under the bus, esp. the status of women, in favour of a misogynistic, totalitarian ideology. Doesn’t matter which sect of Islam, or however moderate individuals seem to be, the foundations of the faith are inflexibility and intolerance.

Well-meaning liberals, the Left and the stupidos who naïvely and ignorantly pander to Islamists help Islamist ideology to gain acceptance.

It is indeed bullying, but it's a very easy way not to allow a kuffar to sit at your table. Surely this cannot be a difficult concept for you to understand.

As you say, homosexuality is not permitted in Christianity - but the consequences of being actively homosexual is not a beheading or being thrown off a tall building. That is a religion taking it upon itself to order you how to live your life. It should only guide you. Islam is totalitarianism, a complete system for living. There are guidelines in the Koran about virtually anything, i.e. what if your neighbour's wife (also muslim) is not dressing properly, should you speak to her husband about it, or to the imam?

I hold no brief for any religion. But I repeat- Muslims in the U.K. are bound by the rule of law. No beheadings allowed.

And I repeat- I don’t think there is anything in the Qu’ran forbidding Muslims to share a table with Christians. Which I why said it must be a particular cult.

By your saying it is a particular cult shows how impoverished your understanding of Islam us, whether it be Sunni or Shia. Sunni is the dominant one in the West. If a muslim person can, he will avoid sharing a table with a non-muslim. That is what is required of any muslim unless the circumstances (like being at a business lunch) brings attention to the avoidance. In a school, or a works canteen, it is very easy to always sit with people of your own faith because it does not look like you are deliberately not mixing.

And don't forget, taqiyya is allowed if not encouraged.

“ If a muslim person can, he will avoid sharing a table with a non-muslim. That is what is required of any muslim ”

That has certainly not been my experience. The only time I have ever come across this is the occasional person who won’t sit at a table with people drinking alcohol.

well - only if there's plenty of people of your faith there. Which, in many workplaces, schools etc won't be the case - which is why this appears to be so extraordinary, because it's not what others have experienced even though they are working or studying with Muslims.

DD sits next to a Muslim boy most days at her school at lunchtime as they're the only vegetarians in her class.

Are you sure taqiyya means what you think it means?

"DD sits next to a Muslim boy most days at her school at lunchtime as they're the only vegetarians in her class."

It's all to do with who the majority is. The poster Isabella said that her daughter is the only Christian in the school. If school was, say, 95 percent Hindu, they would not shun Isabella's daughter because they are inclusive to others. Ditto the Sikhs.

Here is something that appeared on MN a few years ago, and explains how Islam in non-muslim countries works its magic. Sorry it's a bit long.

As long as the Muslim population remains around 1% of any given country they will be regarded as a peace-loving minority and not as a threat to anyone.

At 2% and 3% they begin to proselytize from other ethnic minorities and disaffected groups with major recruiting from the jails and among street gangs.

From 5% on they exercise an inordinate influence in proportion to their percentage of the population.

They will push for the introduction of halal food, thereby securing food preparation jobs for Muslims. It’s more than that. We now have unlabelled halal meat everywhere on our shelves by stealth. The meat codes found in M&S, Waitrose, Tesco, Lidl, Aldi, Morrisons all come from halal-accredited abattoirs. Very occasionally you can come across meat from a non-halal kill house, but not regularly. Muslims also managed to change the decades-long humane slaughter in this country, and with the assistance of the Muslim Council of Britain, Defra, the meat industry and govt the public is being fooled. Animals now are “stunned” for a few seconds, which is more for the convenience of the slaughterman. The stun does NOT cause brain-death as the captive bolt did; it paralyses the animal for a few seconds but animal can still feel-see-hear. In Islam the animal has to be alive to hear the Bismillah prayer and this is what happens now.

At this point, they will work to get the ruling government to allow them to rule themselves under Sharia. The ultimate goal of Islam is not necessarily to convert the world but to establish Sharia law over the entire world.

When Muslims reach 10% of the population, they will increase lawlessness as a means of complaint about their conditions Any non-Muslim action that offends Islam will result in uprisings and threats.

After reaching 20% expect hair-trigger rioting, jihad militia formations, sporadic killings and church and synagogue burning.

At 40% you will find widespread massacres, chronic terror attacks and ongoing militia warfare.

From 60% you may expect unfettered persecution of non-believers and other religions, sporadic ethnic cleansing (genocide), use of Sharia Law as a weapon and Jizya, the tax placed on infidels.
After 80% expect State run ethnic cleansing and genocide.
100% will usher in the peace of ‘Dar-es-Salaam’ — the Islamic House of Peace.