Meet the Other Phone. Flexible and made to last.

Meet the Other Phone.
Flexible and made to last.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To be deeply disappointed in John Cleese

999 replies

drspouse · 29/05/2019 23:06

I have no idea if this is typical but he just tweeted that London isn't an English city any more
What is it then pray tell? What's not English about it??

OP posts:
Thread gallery
7
minou123 · 31/05/2019 19:19

I'm curious - who are the 'English population'?

DogInATent · 31/05/2019 19:30

I'm curious - who are the 'English population'?

Do they look like they could be in the cast of Midsomer Murders?

  • Yes, they're part of the "English population".
  • No, they're not.
Buddytheelf85 · 31/05/2019 19:30

- it's about immigration, but of course not my spouse, they don't mean people like that (if that isn't the definition of racism, I don't know what is). Ask them further and it's entirely about non-white, non-christian non-EU immigration which is not controlled by EU rules - it's the UK's choice.

Indeed. I think one of the greatest ironies of all for Brexiteers is the fact that Brexit has already and will continue to result in higher levels of non-white, non-Christian immigration to the UK.

LordProfFekkoThePenguinPhD · 31/05/2019 19:32

Funny how Farage had a German wife and a (rather obnoxious) french girlfriend. Like his mate Trump. Pull up the ladder behind them eh?

Songsofexperience · 31/05/2019 19:39

Old NF has a taste for continental ladies eh? A quirky EU fetish? Cheeky!

Pointless2 · 31/05/2019 19:39

Yes. Children with German passports and possibly one himself? And the backing of rich venture capitalists currently salivating at the prospect of our Brexit future.

Trump endorses Farage and Boris.

Enough said.

Pointless2 · 31/05/2019 19:44

And though this doesn’t look as if it is currently going ahead, these are the kinds of plans Bannon and co have:

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2019/05/31/italy-scotches-steve-bannons-plans-create-gladiator-school-alt/amp/

minou123 · 31/05/2019 19:46

DogInATent - brilliant Grin

Ive always wondered what a 'typical English ' person was.

I'm also wondering who the minority of people are, that benefit from 'multiculturality'? How do you know if you are benefiting (or not)?

LordProfFekkoThePenguinPhD · 31/05/2019 19:55

Old Nige did try for a German passport didn’t he?

It reminds me of an idiot I read about who was a member of and held meetings for a far right group (NF or BNP I think). He got all upset when he was thrown out because when they turned up for their meeting at his house his Filipino wife was handing out the sandwiches (that she has made for the fuckers).

He was quite funny (in a very in self aware way) though ‘but but but... she made the sandwiches!’ (I hope she pissed on them).

Songsofexperience · 31/05/2019 20:12

@Pointless2

Maybe Bannon's isn't going ahead but this one has and was founded by LePen's niece, all part of the same nebula:

www.pri.org/stories/2019-01-04/le-pen-s-niece-opens-grad-school-train-new-generation-french-far-right-leaders

tierraJ · 31/05/2019 20:19

I'm happy with multiculturalism!! Lots of my friends, colleagues, flatmates, neighbours & boyfriends are / have been immigrants from all over the world & ive rarely had issues with any of them in fact they've enriched my life as much as my English friends & colleagues.

In my own family I have English, Scottish, Jewish & other ancestors, & my relatives have married people who are English, French Algerian, Scottish, Nigerian, Jamaican, Romany, Slavic, Italian etc & have had children.

I'm not 'a middle class lefty' in fact I'm a working class care assistant & what I see is that the nhs & the care industry would be decimated if the eu & other immigrant workers leave.

If you voted leave that's fine by me, if you don't want immigrants around then whatever (well ok you're a knob) but just think - who is going to do the jobs that very few English people will do when all the immigrants 'go home'.
Put bluntly who will be wiping your bum when you've had a bedpan in hospital or changing your incontinence pad in the nursing home??
Because I don't see all those Brexit party voting EDL loving English unemployed lining up to do it. And some of the English people I work with have a slight tendency to work in a lazy & messy way, I'm really sorry but it's true.

drspouse · 31/05/2019 20:25

I also have more friends and family from other cultures than I have access to interesting restaurants and dance classes, living as I do in The North. So I do benefit but not in the middle class way described.

OP posts:
Pointless2 · 31/05/2019 20:30

@Songsofexperience

Yes, their plans are clear and I am sure Bannon and co have lots of strategies underway.

I don’t understand why many people don’t see how sinister this is.

tierraJ · 31/05/2019 20:41

Marine le pen is the daughter of an old Vichy Nazi.

Pegida Uk the anti Muslim group that was run by Tommy Robinson was linked to Germany's Pegida, which was founded by people with actual SS links.

The far right afd in Germany have links with old Nazis & are pro Brexit, in fact I've known Brexiters on my FB to share their speeches! (I unfollowed them).

Victor Orban the pm of Hungary is rabidly anti Semitic & anti Roma yet the tories have supported him.

Salvini in Italy is careful not to say he is a Fascist but his policies are against Roma & immigrants.

These are all people that Farage & Trump & Bannon think are worth building links with.

Call me paranoid and I am but this is worrying.

Valanice1989 · 31/05/2019 21:16

Whatever Farages motivations he is the only one standing up for a large part of the English population.

The same Farage who wants the NHS to be privatised? The same Farage who wants to decrease maternity pay? What large part of the English population is he standing up for, then?

longwayoff · 31/05/2019 21:37

You're not paranoid tierra, you are justifiably scared of the bunch of right wing loons who are inching their way into institutions across Europe and America. We should all be scared. We'll be a lot more scared if they succeed.

MatthewBramble · 31/05/2019 21:44

As a Londoner I don't think it's for a provincial music hall comic/actor's place to criticise my home town. I don't go around slagging off Weston-super-Mare.

MangoFeverDream · 31/05/2019 21:50

Japan has a very different culture and was a closed country under a policy of isolationism until the mid-19th century. This still shapes the demographics of Japanese cities

Japan had a massive empire and colonized most of East and Southeast Asia. So, no, they got in the global game themselves and tried to force their language and culture on others. Yet, they don’t feel the need to constantly apologize for that (they actually should, though).

I’m not British but do see a disconnect. You care so much about preserving and celebrating other people’s culture, but not your own. Pathetic really.

Cafelatte2go · 31/05/2019 22:05

I totally agree with him. London could be any city in Europe to be honest, the individuality has gone. If I go to Tokyo, I'd like to have the experience of visiting Tokyo. Same with Madrid or Amsterdam or Istanbul or any city across the world. Multiculturalism has many benefits, but it does make things rather bland and mundane at the same time.

People calling him a racist... FFS. This is exactly why we have the rise of the far-right amongst those who are disaffected as these people feel their opinions cannot be heard .

DogInATent · 31/05/2019 22:12

Japan had a massive empire and colonized most of East and Southeast Asia. So, no, they got in the global game themselves and tried to force their language and culture on others. Yet, they don’t feel the need to constantly apologize for that (they actually should, though).
You missed the point entirely, it was a response to why Tokyo appears to be less multi-cultural than London in terms of population cultural diversity.

MangoFeverDream · 31/05/2019 22:51

You missed the point entirely, it was a response to why Tokyo appears to be less multi-cultural than London in terms of population cultural diversity

Isolationist policies faded long ago with feudalism and they became a colonial power, like Britain. So no, I don’t think that’s an adequate explaination. Rather, London is the outlier

HelpMeFindAName · 31/05/2019 22:59

Oh piss off songs
You obviously have very bright kids.You aren't a teacher so with no due respect, I'm not interested in your anecdotal evidence of 2 children when I've spent 13 years teaching hundreds. I love the kids I teach (most of them grin) but it saddens me when many of them struggle more than they should because their parents don't expose them to the language of the country they were born and raised in, whether that be through choice or because the parents are unable to speak English (which is a problem).

@Mookie81 It's been a long day and this thread has moved on quite a bit. In my experience, and research has shown, that it takes only a year for pupils who struggle in a language to become proficient in it. For example then, if you have someone start school/Reception at age 4 not speaking a word of English, they will by Year 1 be pretty fluent. Statistically also, it is the white working class - traditionally those pupils who come from ethnically English backgrounds - which come out near the bottom at all stages of primary and secondary education (I take no delight in saying this). To then say pupils who are unable to converse well in English, at the start of their education, will be hindered for the rest of their school life is rather dramatic.

It makes me laugh. I clearly recall a member of staff in Yr 7 pressing me to say what language(s) my parents spoke. She then put that down as my first language...because my parents spoke it as their first language. English is my first language but I strongly suspect I was put down as speaking English as a second language. Nothing wrong with that I suppose, but that is why I take these language stats with a pinch of salt. Most of my form group also probably were classified as speaking English as a second language, even though not one us of conversed with each other in anything other than English.

With regards to the census - I recall there being, for ethnicity, a box called "White English/Welsh/Scottish/Irish". I, not being ethnically white British of course did not tick that. However the term English is also a nationality.

Nationality is as, if not more, important than ethnicity as that concerns the present day and people's everyday experiences. An English person (i.e. an English national) is someone born and bred in England, embedded with the English values I mentioned previously. To assume then, that a non-white person who fits this description is not English is very insulting.

Finally @Mookie81 HelpMeFindAName going back to my example of no one speaking English around me from earlier, maybe John's friend is referring to this and not a lack of 'white' faces. And no, schools don't get money for labelling children EAL Hmm.

You appear to be conflating being English and monolingualism Hmm. To give another scenario: I've walked down famous London streets, with my non-white English friend (who fits the description of Englishness that I've outlined above and previously). She speaks 3 languages of which one she shares with her parents. She is speaking that language on the phone to her parents. So that makes it alright for someone like John Cleese to see her and make such a rude assumption?

Many English people, of all colours, speak multiple languages. It is likely that Mr Cleese walked past a white English person speaking another language they happen to know. The world is a larger place and it should be any country's privilege to have monolingual citizens. What John Cleese, and people such as yourself do, in expecting a country's citizen to only speak one language in order to be considered worthy of being a part of that country, is promote xenophobia, small-mindedness, intolerance and frankly a lack of love for education. Which is sad as you are a teacher. Assumptions ruin lives, so please be very careful.

HelpMeFindAName · 31/05/2019 23:07

That should read: The world is a larger place and it should be any country's privilege to have multilingual citizens.

Pointless2 · 01/06/2019 06:42

I agree @HelpMeFindAName, English and Englishness can no longer be so narrowly defined.

I guess that’s where the fact that the UK is a grouping of countries does not help 2nd, 3rd and 4th generation immigrants, or people who are of mixed English and other heritage. Since we are able to call ourselves British as well, someone who comes from an Indian background for example, is a “British Indian”. Making it seem as if the term English, or indeed Scottish, Welsh or (Northern) Irish can only be used for people who have no other culture in their background.

Added to which it is of course an issue of skin colour, because it is easier for white immigrants to become “English”. Look at someone like Boris Johnson, with his very mixed heritage. (However the fact that he is ignorant, narcissistic, lazy and ambitious supercedes any other label we might give him Angry.)

As usual, David Lammy, who has himself had to put up with lots of abuse, is succinct on the subject.

To be deeply disappointed in John Cleese
FedUpMum40 · 01/06/2019 20:55

If you go to burnt oak, alot of its population are Romanian, all Romanian restaurants, shops ect, so if we (as in all of us from different nationalities all congregate in one place and set up just for that nationality that isn't a way to integrate into a country is it? Where I live its very much a bit of everything, if he's talking about this kind of thing I do see what he's trying to say.