to think this IS stealing and it DOES count?

[Snuffalo]

Sister in law has a little piece from a fishbone cactus potted up on her windowsill, just starting to show new growth. I asked if I could have a cutting once it's established, and she said sure, or I could just go to (fancy houseplant shop up the road) and see if there was a bit on the floor, because that's where she got the cutting.

She swears she didn't break it off - that it was already broken off and on the floor near the 'parent' plant (this is believable, the shop is really crowded and you have to brush by the plants to get through).

Her argument is that it was a tiny piece (true - it's an inch long at most) and that it would have just been swept up and thrown out anyway.

My arguments are 1. unless she took the piece to the proprietor and asked if she could have it, it's still stealing. Who's to say the shop owner wouldn't have potted it up herself? and 2. the proprietor paid for the rent, soil, plant food, and put in the labour to create and nurture the plant that dropped that little one-inch cutting and SIL is effectively stealing that money and effort.

This wasn't an ACTUAL argument, just a discussion, I'm not dobbing her in or cutting her off over it, but just curious to see how other people view it.

I think it's an interesting question and well worth discussion. I agree with you, OP. Unless you asked the proprietor, you have no idea whethe these plant cast offs are unwanted. It may be that one of the regular duties is to sweep them up and then pot them.

As the proprietor well knows, she can grow that little thing into a whole new plant which can be sold.

So yes, your sil has stolen a whole plant, or at least the probability of a whole plant from the shop. These tiny things, tiny amounts, all add up and can make all the difference between a shop remaining open for business, and it's permanent failure.

That's why some people tell you off when you read all the headlines in the paper shop but don't buy buy a paper.

Would you pick up a £ coin if you saw it on the ground and keep it or move heaven and earth to try to track down the owner?? It's a small piece of a big plant - it doesn't matter - really!

If that’s stealing then I too am a thief - I sometimes take a teensy piece of broccoli from the bottom of the box in the supermarket to give the hamster.

So cuff me.

🐹

I work in retail. We often bin stuff that I and may more could make use of. Table lamps where either just the base or shade is broken, stacking boxes with lids broken, glass wear with one part broken or missing etc
We are not allowed to take these items even though they have been binned. If someone does it is theft and you will at the very least lose your job for doing it.
Same as if you are passing a skip or at your local dump you cannot just help yourself as it is someone’s rubbish as it is still not yours.

@Kko1986: I know its different but at one of the zoo's in the local area if you find a peacock feather for example on the floor you can't just take it you have to pay for it otherwise it is stealing.

I didn't know that! That's interesting.

I agree with those who say that it's rubbish, but it's rubbish that is still the property of the shop owner. So technically stealing, yes.

On a similar note, I guess people who take things out of wheely bins are stealing. Even though I've put my bins on the kerb because I want them emptied, it's still my property until it's taken.

I wouldn't count that as stealing.

So, if something is in a skip, who does it belong to? The person who threw it away? The skip supplier who’s taking it to landfill? I wouldn’t hesitate quite honestly - recycling someone else’s rubbish is pretty laudable in my book.

What the ....

So, if something is in a skip, who does it belong to? The person who threw it away?

Yes

But they’ve clearly labelled it rubbish by putting it in the skip. When does it stop being theirs?

Maybe, technically it's stealing, but surely picking scraps from the floor that would be swept up and binned is ok.

*If that’s stealing then I too am a thief - I sometimes take a teensy piece of broccoli from the bottom of the box in the supermarket to give the hamster.

So cuff me.*

It IS theft though.

The police can’t be arsed turning up to burglaries in some areas these days so I think you might be safe. Same for the OP’s SIL.

Not stealing imo but she should have asked first, I think you’re being a bit dramatic though

Log it with 101. Inform social services also.

Legally? Technically it's probably a very mild form of theft.

Morally? No, have at it.

My grandma was a lady of very high moral standing. She was a regular church goer and is always my compass on what’s right and wrong. Her handbag always had a cutting of some plant or other she’d seen and liked. So, with her as my guide I’d say definitely not theft. 🙂

But they’ve clearly labelled it rubbish by putting it in the skip. When does it stop being theirs?

True. It’s still theft though, called ‘theft by finding’. It stops being theirs when legal possession passes to someone else. I am not saying any of this makes sense, but it is the law. I have no idea why you can steal rubbish, but you can and people have been prosecuted for literally taking things from rubbish bins.

So many things are offences that people don’t realise and lots of people end up in court completely unaware they did anything wrong.

I wonder if those who said "no" would pick up a jumper in M&S that had fallen to the floor and remove it without paying?

No, but if I saw a loose thread from a jumper on the floor (and for some bizarre reason wanted it) I wouldn't see a problem with it.

I like these threads as it makes me reflect on my own behaviour. I wouldn't have thought twice about rescuing a wee bit of cactus from the floor, but given the above definitions then I could have fallen foul of the law. I guess only if the owner felt they had been stolen from.
The question left in my mind is did her act reduce trade for the owner? Ie would you have bought one or are you only having one as its free.

Your day sounds lovely btw.

I bet the shopowner considers it to be stealing! If your sis didn't think it was stealing, why didn't she ask if she could have it? .

I am curious. Where would the rest of you MNetters draw the line then? Is it then ok to pick up and keep fruit dropped on floor in the supermarket, maybe a bit of change or a note or too? Afterall, it's just rubbish on the floor, isn't it.

Well if it is stealing I must be a kleptomaniac as have loads of plants grown from scraps found on the floor in shops and nurseries. Even have a tree grown from a squashed fruit from Kew Gardens!

Well is it ok to take food out of bins by supermarkets. I mean it’ll be chucked. You’re using it for something good.

Sometimes the good outweighs the bad.

This has to be the most MN post ever!

Who cares if it's technically stealing. If the person who owns it doesn't want it and you're clearly never going to be prosecuted then no harm is done. Anyone who is so pedantic they'd take issue with recycling something someone has thrown away is quite frankly a moron.

It was just an interesting little moral question and I was wondering how other people might see it.