to think this IS stealing and it DOES count?

[Snuffalo]

Sister in law has a little piece from a fishbone cactus potted up on her windowsill, just starting to show new growth. I asked if I could have a cutting once it's established, and she said sure, or I could just go to (fancy houseplant shop up the road) and see if there was a bit on the floor, because that's where she got the cutting.

She swears she didn't break it off - that it was already broken off and on the floor near the 'parent' plant (this is believable, the shop is really crowded and you have to brush by the plants to get through).

Her argument is that it was a tiny piece (true - it's an inch long at most) and that it would have just been swept up and thrown out anyway.

My arguments are 1. unless she took the piece to the proprietor and asked if she could have it, it's still stealing. Who's to say the shop owner wouldn't have potted it up herself? and 2. the proprietor paid for the rent, soil, plant food, and put in the labour to create and nurture the plant that dropped that little one-inch cutting and SIL is effectively stealing that money and effort.

This wasn't an ACTUAL argument, just a discussion, I'm not dobbing her in or cutting her off over it, but just curious to see how other people view it.

It's borderline cheeky, as she should have asked, but not really stealing as it would have been chucked out anyway. I think if the shopkeeper had called the police and reported her for stealing, they would have been told off for wasting police time!

Not sure why you are getting such a beating and a roasting on this thread @Snuffalo as you only asked for opinions and views. The 'you need to get a life,' and 'get a hobby' and 'you sound jealous' comments are not only mean, but also a bit pathetic and laughable.. You could say that about everyone who starts a thread on here asking a question.

Don't take it to heart though. This is AIBU after all!

Does make you wonder if these posters would talk to people like this in real life though.

Accepting the fact that this is discussion about an "abstract concept" - I'm going against the grain a bit here and saying - yes it is stealing. She picked up something at a retail premises which didn't belong to her and removed it without paying. So, yes, that's stealing however you might wish to define it.

I wonder if those who said "no" would pick up a jumper in M&S that had fallen to the floor and remove it without paying?

Maybe someone who said it's not stealing could please explain their reasoning. The fact that it's a small and apparently unwanted item is totally irrelevant. She should have asked at the very least if she could have it.

(And ...like OP .... I too have lots going on and have had a very busy day, before anyone asks .....)

In law it is certainly stealing. The cutting belonged to the shopkeeper, she took it from them with an intention to deprive them permanently of it. It doesn't matter whether the shopkeeper intended to repot it themselves or throw it away.

Of course, the reality is that no-one would ever be prosecuted for this, but everyone saying that this isn't stealing is talking rubbish.

I wonder if those who said "no" would pick up a jumper in M&S that had fallen to the floor and remove it without paying?

No because it's an item of stock. That's a bad analogy. The equivalent there would be taking a bit of cotton or wool off M&S's floor which had fallen off a jumper.

@Isatis - ''everyone saying that this isn't stealing is talking rubbish.''

Great pun! Intended of course, yes?

Is taking something out of a skip stealing?

@Laiste it would be a bit of wool off a jumper that could then be grown into another jumper.

I agree that it is an interesting enough philosophical conundrum to idly mull over on a Sunday afternoon, and significantly more edifying than discussing soap opera plots, the latest exploits of the Kardashians, or even Brexit.

@Banhaha
A little jumper for a bee! 🐝
😆

@MrsExpo

I wonder if those who said "no" would pick up a jumper in M&S that had fallen to the floor and remove it without paying?

@Laiste

No because it's an item of stock. That's a bad analogy. The equivalent there would be taking a bit of cotton or wool off M&S's floor which had fallen off a jumper.

Exactly.

Imagine calling the police on someone who had taken a tiny bit of plant that was on the floor? To compare it to taking a jumper of skirt from a shop is beyond daft. You would be done for wasting police time (and quite rightly too!) As I said, a bit cheeky yes, but out and out stealing. No. Not in my opinion.

@Banhaha

@Laiste it would be a bit of wool off a jumper that could then be grown into another jumper.

LOL!

It's rubbish but it's not your rubbish.

Have you nothing else to worry about. You are going way too deep here.

Technically it might be theft, but if she wants to steal rubbish off the floor in almost any place she'd be welcome to it. Florists usually buy in plants rather than grow them from cuttings in my experience, but perhaps I haven't met the right florists.

You're absolutely right OP. You should have her arrested immediately and have nothing more to do with the thieving bint. You should check the soles of her shoes as well, there's no knowing what she might have nicked whilst walking through the shop.

Nope not stealing

And clearly you have a real problem with you SIL generally to have such an issue with this

Bloody hell I always thought I was pedantically moralistic but this is a new level. What harm has she done? None at all. Therefore it's fine.

Oh dear

I know its different but at one of the zoo's in the local area if you find a peacock feather for example on the floor you can't just take it you have to pay for it otherwise it is stealing.

I wonder if those who said "no" would pick up a jumper in M&S that had fallen to the floor and remove it without paying?

Such a ridiculous analogy. If an item of stock fell on the floor in M&S it would clearly not be rubbish and would just be hung up again and sold. Something on the floor that would clearly otherwise be thrown in the bin is not the same.

If I had gone to the shop, and purposely crushed that cutting underfoot, would I be guilty of criminal damage? Because if you argue that it's stealing of property, you must then agree that stepping on it on purpose is criminal damage of that property.

Not necessarily. The law is different for criminal damage and the elements of the offence are not the same. It isn’t as simple as saying it must be criminal damage if it is theft. For criminal damage, it is relevant what the shop keeper intended to do with the cutting. If it was to be thrown away, crushing it wouldn’t make a difference. If they intended to use it for re planting, it would be criminal damage. The intention is irrelevant for the offence of theft.

Is taking something out of a skip stealing?

Yes

If I found it on the floor, I would probably pick it up and take it. I wouldn’t, however do it so it was obvious to people that I was walking out with it....so I guess it is wrong really! Yes, it’s technically stealing! I wouldn’t take a plant from the shelf and walk out with it.

Hmmm this is an interesting one!

She probably should have asked as a courtesy. I did when I wanted Christmas tree trimmings to decorate my house and the garden centre told me to take as much as I wanted as they would just bin it.

New conundrum: if you are travelling on a plane which has unlimited ‘help yourself’ snacks and little bottles of booze (think long haul business class), and you were to pop a little chocolate bar or similar in your bag for later maybe accidentally, is that stealing? If not, where do you draw the line?

Omg. Why haven’t you called these in yet? It’s beyond criminal.