To be bored of the ‘it’s not gender it’s sex’ posts?

[HermioneMakepeace]

Seriously. Every time someone uses the word ‘gender’ this happens. Gender reveal parties, gender scans, etc. Everyone knows what they mean. Why nitpick and derail the thread?

The dictionary definition of gender is,

either of the two sexes (male and female), especially when considered with reference to social and cultural differences rather than biological ones.

It says ‘especially when’, not ‘only when’. IMO gender is a completely acceptable alternative to sex. And an easier term to use as it does not flag on work computers.

Does anybody else agree or AIBU?

No, in lay terms gender means gender and sex means sex. Some people are too squeamish to use the word sex.

Gender is nothing more than a stereotype and like all stereotypes it is harmful.

Sex refers to biological reality.

Hermione those are the only 2 options!

In my line of work sex and gender are often used interchangeably in reports produced by non-English speakers, who assume gender is the polite way of saying sex. Since gender now has a meaning quite distinct from that of sex, and the point of our work is accuracy, it would be misleading for us to say gender instead of sex. Therefore, we now don't.

I think it’s an important distinction to make but I wouldn’t be a dick about it. It’s all about choosing the right moment to say stuff.

Sex and gender are different.
Biological sex is observed and recorded.
Gender is the social norms and conventions and stereotypes that limit men and women.

Conflating the two is allowing some predatory men to attack women's rights.

Of course I wouldn't be rude and correct a host at a silly genital reveal pary though.

Yabvu
And I’m bored with the corruption of language , words and meanings and the insidious erosion of women’s hard won rights and people clearly having no clue that it’s even happening.

Because the confusion between gender and sex has directly lead to the greatest threat to women's rights.

Imagine thinking trans women are the biggest threat to women’s rights and just forgetting about reproductive rights, the incredible prevalence of rape and sexual assault and the painfully low conviction rates for both, domestic violence and the gender pay gap. Just imagine being so privileged that you can actually pretend those things are less threatening than trans women.

I don't know why we even need to refer to gender.
It's a meaningless term which doesn't mean a great deal.
What's important is biology, not sexist stereotypes about behaviour.

This meaning of gender originated back in the 17th century if I recall correctly

Ah right OP, so the article you copied, is just someone's thoughts and not really fact based?

cariadne no one thinks individual transwomen themselves are the biggest threat yo women's rights, but the TRA movement is actively attempting to undermine the definition of what is a woman.

If we can no longer define who is a woman and who isn't, how do we begin to deal with incredible prevalence of rape and sexual assault and the painfully low conviction rates for both, domestic violence and the gender pay gap given all those things overwhelmingly impact on adult human females?

Cariadne

Imagine thinking trans women are the biggest threat to women’s rights and just forgetting about reproductive rights, the incredible prevalence of rape and sexual assault and the painfully low conviction rates for both, domestic violence and the gender pay gap. Just imagine being so privileged that you can actually pretend those things are less threatening than trans women

And are these a threat to a particular gender or a particular sex?

Imagine thinking trans women are the biggest threat to women’s rights and just forgetting about reproductive rights, the incredible prevalence of rape and sexual assault and the painfully low conviction rates for both, domestic violence and the gender pay gap. Just imagine being so privileged that you can actually pretend those things are less threatening than trans women.

Imagine being so daft as to think you can draw a bright line between these problems and the prevalence of trans ideology, that allowing males to access spaces where women are vulnerable isn't going to increase rape and sexual assault.

Imagine being so naïve as to think the high salaries of males like Pippa Bunce who've had all the privilege of navigating the working world as males then IDing as women aren't going to be used to argue that the pay gap is narrowing.

Imagine the privilege it must take to ignore the women prisoners who have already been exposed and continue to be exposed to violent males because of the increasing prevalence of the pro self-ID ideology, and not to even try and understand what this does to their risk of rape and sexual assault.

Just imagine.

And yes OP YABU.

Let me think.........nah. (As someone who did just that on a thread.) sex is the bits you're born with, gender is the pink and blue/dinosaurs and unicorns bollox society uses to stick us in boxes.

The first 5 answers have it. The difference is important. Yabu.

Well said RussianSpamBot.

Summed up the importance of using the terms correctly nicely there.

Thank you

I agree OP

I corrected an assignment that conflated sex and gender, but I wouldn't correct someone having a 'gender reveal party' because even though they are using the wrong terminology, they are using it in a social sense

@cariadne
How on earth do you read my comment Because the confusion between gender and sex has directly lead to the greatest threat to women's rights to mean that individual transwomen are the biggest threat?!

I can't work out whether you're deliberately disingenuous or so steeped in woke thought that you cannot engage your brain.

If you cannot define "woman" and segregate accordingly more females will be raped and assaulted. If you cannot accurately record incidences of rape and assault as being against women how do you protect them?

If men who ID as women are included in "gender pay gap" analysis how do you ensure that the reality of why females get paid less is clear?

I reject gendered behaviour but I have embraced the biological purpose of my sex and gestated humans.

May I jus5 point out that it is the possession of xx chromosomes and female reproductive organs that is the defining characteristic of the female sex. Whether or not you have used those organs is completely irrelevant.

If we don't keep mentioning it, politely because there's no need for rudeness, then how will others learn about what is happening to women's rights?

I have a daughter, she understands that sex and gender are two entirely different things, because I've taught her that. She will now correct people if necessary.

Well said Russian. There are several reasonable responses to the current sex vs gender battleground but boredom is a luxury only available to men.

Im all for precise use of language. Words have meanings.

But i think in a social context, its less important than say law, medicine etc

I couldnt give a toss about a gender or sex reveal. Theyre both guff

It matters.

It matters because there is a push to teach children that not conforming to gender stereotypes is something really serious and that it needs help. Example - booklet available on the Mermaids website which talks about "gender variant" behaviours as an issue and, whilst outwardly supportive and non-judgemental, one really has to question why society is so hung up on whether girls like dolls and boys like sport.

It matters because homosexuality is being eroded and people's inherent sexual attraction is being called discriminatory and transphobic. Lesbians are being told that they are bigoted for not wanting to have sex with a penis. Men are being told they are transphobic for not wanting to penetrate a vagina (or 'front hole' as they are often euphemistically called). The original acronym of 'LGBT' was a misnomer; the first three are sexual orientations where as 'trans' is not. A women can conform to the gender stereotypes expected of her and still be a lesbian. My rugby playing mate who is as butch as they come is a gay man. Trans has nothing to do with sexual orientation and is solely concerned with gender.

It matters because children are being encouraged to make life-changing medical decisions which could profoundly affect their health and fertility. This has recently come to the fore in the mainstream media. The drugs used as 'puberty blockers' are not the benign and fully reversible medicines that they are often held up to be. There are lawsuits in the USA at the moment from women who were treated with the same class of these drugs to delay 'precocious puberty' and who have been left with life-changing health issues as a result. Use of these medicines (GnRH agonists) for delaying puberty in trans-identified children is off-label i.e. the drugs have not been tested for this purpose and nobody knows what the long-term outcomes are for people who take them.

It matters because there are concerted efforts being made to suggest that sex organs are interchangeable between male and female - female penis and male vagina. That self-identification of 'gender' trumps biological reality. This leads to male-bodies being placed in female prisons and domestic violence refuges.

It matters because women's rights, fought for on the basis of being oppressed because we are biologically different, are being erased. Women's sports are at risk as male-bodied competitors set world records. Women's scholarships and positive action initiatives are undermined, as male bodies present themselves as female. Women's safety is at risk because single sex spaces, introduced as a specific measure in response to the additional threats and vulnerability that women face, are being removed.

It matters, because this is all being driven by an idea and a feeling. That liking pink and makeup and dolls means you must be female. That liking football and facial hair and climbing trees means you must be male.

Examples of the above:

Sport Rachel McKinnon, Fallon Fox, Laurel Hubbard, Terry Miller and Andraya Yarwood.

Prison Karen White - who was placed into a female prison after transitioning and sexually assaulted other female inmates. Ella Davies - who has been placed in a male prison but will be up for transfer to a female prison if the service decides it's a better fit. Link to press coverage including an astounding comment from the defence which implies that Davies' psychiatric problems and gender dysphoria should be a mitigating factor for the crimes committed. Which is horrifying when you read about the types of images found on Davies' computer.

Gender pay gap Really this should be the 'sex pay gap', but I give you Pips Bunce whose gender fluidity gained them a place within the Financial Times Top 100 Women in Business list - Link

I think lay people have traditional used them interchangeably.

It's increasing causes issues when NHS wards, prisons, rape centres, dv services, women’s changing rooms, positions reserved for women segregation by gender not sex as it allows penises in there.

The law allows sex based services but some organisations/charities are teaching other organisation/institutions this isn’t allowed and must be by gender. This leads to Karen White situations where nefarious men exploit the situation and lack of risk assessments that usually accompany changing sex to gender segregation.

It's also can lead to medical problems usually for transmen – a trans man died I think in US because they treated the blood results like a biological mans and recent case there was confusion that lead to a transman suffering a still birth.

I personally wouldn’t correct gender reveal part though I am increasing getting annoyed with forms asking for gender when they mean sex.