To find Mumsnet to be very Victorian?

[Calltheguards]

I'm not sure if maybe this was always the case and I'm just slow to pick up on it but... AIBU to find Mumsnet very Victorian? It seems like a lot of people post here just to shame others and like to control/dictate behaviour. In a historical context the shame aspect reminds me of the Victorian Era with individuals gossiping amongst neighbours to join in. Flaming the OP for having feelings that are contrary to the majority seems a bit of a sport.

Is Mumsnet the technical modern age answer to Victorian Era levels of propriety and shame? I'm just posting this for discussion of an observation and wondering if this was always the point of this website.

@Absolutepowercorrupts

My bad, I didn't mean to imply that everyone was a troll hunter... Not at all. I was only responding to the troll hunters/real trolls because I believe they were calling me a troll in order to get the discussion deleted. I do agree with you that other areas of MN are great, and I love the SN, Property, and Baby Names sections. My focus is on AIBU because it's the area of MN that gets the highest amount of traffic and is kind of what MN is known for. There are nice people in AIBU but I have just noticed that some posters like to shame others (imo) and seem to get a high off belittling people in a way that's quite cruel. I assume some people post about their personal lives here when they may be in a vulnerable spot, so the flaming for sport threw me.

Not much has changed but to sniffily suggest the OP “doesn’t know much about Victorians” is pretentious & irrelevant

It was the OP who claimed the Victorian parallel in their thread title and OP, without any arguments to support their fatuous claim, so yes, they deserved to be called on it. This is AIBU and yes, they were, and still are BU.

LipstickHandbagCoffee oh ear i think i might have said all those things

@echt

Victorian morality is a distillation of the moral views of people living during the time of Queen Victoria's reign (1837–1901), the Victorian era, and of the moral climate of Great Britain in the mid-19th century in general. The British sought to bring these values to the British Empire. Historian Harold Perkin writes:

Between 1780 and 1850 the English ceased to be one of the most aggressive, brutal, rowdy, outspoken, riotous, cruel and bloodthirsty nations in the world and became one of the most inhibited, polite, orderly, tender-minded, prudish and hypocritical. The transformation diminished cruelty to animals, criminals, lunatics, and children (in that order); suppressed many cruel sports and games, such as bull-baiting and cock-fighting, as well as innocent amusements, including many fairs and wakes; rid the penal code of about two hundred capital offences, abolished transportation [of criminals to Australia], and cleaned up the prisons; turned Sunday into a day of prayer for some and mortification for all.[1]
Victorian values emerged in all classes and reached all facets of Victorian living. The values of the period—which can be classed as religion, morality, Evangelicalism, industrial work ethic, and personal improvement—took root in Victorian morality. Current plays and all literature—including old classics like Shakespeare—were cleansed of naughtiness, or "bowdlerized."

Contemporary historians have generally come to regard the Victorian era as a time of many conflicts, such as the widespread cultivation of an outward appearance of dignity and restraint, together with serious debates about exactly how the new morality should be implemented. The international slave trade was abolished, and this ban was enforced by the Royal Navy. Slavery was ended in all the British colonies, child labour was ended in British factories, and a long debate ensued regarding whether prostitution should be totally abolished or tightly regulated. Homosexuality remained illegal.

As of the turn of the 21st century, the term "Victorian morality" can describe any set of values that espouse sexual restraint, low tolerance of crime and a strict social code of conduct.

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victorian_morality

You're welcome.

YNSSSL (You need some smelling salts, love)

OP, I think the likes of Saskia render your point illustrated perfectly.

I also agree with you.
God forbid you say something flippantly, you get jumped on.
The way people have jumped on your use of Victorian when it’s largely irrelevant, most people know what you mean but they jump all over the irrelevant part because they don’t agree with the actual arguement.

I name change a lot, not a crime. And lately I’m finding the bullying undertones a turn off.

Ps whatever you do, don’t ever write a post about your rich elderly father marrying a 25 year old and changing his will to leave everything to her. I am rendered speechless every time that so many posters think you’d be totally irrational and unreasonable to be miffed about it.

Agree OP (guess I’ll be called a troll too)
I do think it partly though that some people can be the perfect version of themselves. I do this or I’d do that .... imagining themselves always behaving in the way that strikes their own egos and convinces themselves they would be better people than the posters. Then there are those that just want to be part of the gang, any gang - so they immediately agree with the majority but then have to almost agree more .... but in more extreme and hostile language. Then there are the MN groupmind issues where I swear there is some sort of phone tree or private message alert system to round up the pack and attack .... brexit (it’s a fifty/fifty issue everywhere else in the country but not here), abortion, SAHM and the ridiculousness around eating house work and life admin (cringe!) to actual work. And then some people are just utter cunts .....

Eating = equating

You're right OP and I don't think you're a troll.

Isn't troll hunting against the rules anyway? Aren't we all entreated to ignore and report? Often by some of the posters that like tobdush out the most judgment iirc.

People have always liked judging other people to feel better about themselves. It's not new nor unique to mumsnet. It never went away.

@echt

Victorian morality is a distillation of the moral views of people living during the time of Queen Victoria's reign (1837–1901), the Victorian era, and of the moral climate of Great Britain in the mid-19th century in general. The British sought to bring these values to the British Empire. Historian Harold Perkin writes:

Between 1780 and 1850 the English ceased to be one of the most aggressive, brutal, rowdy, outspoken, riotous, cruel and bloodthirsty nations in the world and became one of the most inhibited, polite, orderly, tender-minded, prudish and hypocritical. The transformation diminished cruelty to animals, criminals, lunatics, and children (in that order); suppressed many cruel sports and games, such as bull-baiting and cock-fighting, as well as innocent amusements, including many fairs and wakes; rid the penal code of about two hundred capital offences, abolished transportation [of criminals to Australia], and cleaned up the prisons; turned Sunday into a day of prayer for some and mortification for all.[1]
Victorian values emerged in all classes and reached all facets of Victorian living. The values of the period—which can be classed as religion, morality, Evangelicalism, industrial work ethic, and personal improvement—took root in Victorian morality. Current plays and all literature—including old classics like Shakespeare—were cleansed of naughtiness, or "bowdlerized."

Contemporary historians have generally come to regard the Victorian era as a time of many conflicts, such as the widespread cultivation of an outward appearance of dignity and restraint, together with serious debates about exactly how the new morality should be implemented. The international slave trade was abolished, and this ban was enforced by the Royal Navy. Slavery was ended in all the British colonies, child labour was ended in British factories, and a long debate ensued regarding whether prostitution should be totally abolished or tightly regulated. Homosexuality remained illegal

As of the turn of the 21st century, the term "Victorian morality" can describe any set of values that espouse sexual restraint, low tolerance of crime and a strict social code of conduct

There, that didn't hurt did it?

However, what does any of this have to do with MN? In your view?

Then there are the MN groupmind issues where I swear there is some sort of phone tree or private message alert system to round up the pack and attack .... brexit (it’s a fifty/fifty issue everywhere else in the country but not here), abortion, SAHM and the ridiculousness around eating house work and life admin (cringe!) to actual work

There is no group. It is individual posters saying what they think. As for the 50 split elsewhere in the country? No idea where you get this but posters on MN are not committed to balance, it is an anonymous forum for individuals. MN is not the BBC with some "balance" agenda foisted on it.

Well tbf there are troll groups on other well known sites who do use alert systems to "round up the troll pack and attack" but those are decidedly hairy handed bridge dwellers and not mners.

MN is great and there is a lot of excellent support to be had and open honest forthright discussion and education going on, much more publicly and progressively than the victorian women were allowed to (for now).

But understand there is a hard core active group of trolls networking externally to try to shut mn down and silence us as the obedient victorian women they think we ought to be. They are attempting to do this by attacking the site in the press and online, founders, advertisers and anyone else they think will listen. A big part of their play is setting up scenarios on threads to illustrate how awful we disrespectful women with our outspoken ways truly are. Since we aren't awful at all the trolls pretend to be mners, say very unmn things, screenshot and share it as proof we must be silenced.

It isnae working.

Fucking hell this thread is funny it was a bloody joke about virtue signalling and one upping, and on this very thread someone has tried to one up you with Victorian knowledge. Peak Mumsnet.

Troll hunters are dull as ditch water.
At least trolls are funny sometimes

I don’t know about Victorian, but there’s a definite hive mind on here.

If you are a SAHM, you are categorically told you must return to work - to be a good role model; to gain “independence” and “”stimulation”, but above all -

to avoid “THE 1950s CALLING!!!”

Yes, don’t you dare make your DH so much as a cup of tea in case that phone rings and it’s that pesky 1950s again.

If your DH happens to have a few hobbies - well no, sorry this is not allowed. ESPECIALLY IF HE IS A CYCLIST . This really is the lowest of the low in MN world.

How can he possibly do his “50/50” childcare / housework, if he rides a bike in Lycra? Selfish bastard.

If your DC achieve anything at all, do not mention it - it’s a “stealth boast.”

More than 2 DC - you are destroying the planet.

Funny thread am enjoying. It amuses me when they investigate a poster cherry picking past posts to have a go. That is just weird, why would they do that?

I definitely don't get the rage against cycling

I can't stand all the sexual shaming on MN (women being told off for "spreading their legs" , women being blamed for "breeding" with abusive men, as if it isn't a very common phenomenon for abuse to start in pregnancy). I don't think it used to be this bad.

Mumsnet has educated me about how self obsessed and paranoid people can be. I always contribute to the What's For Dinner threads and have no reason to think people aren't telling the truth. There are always people who are having fish fingers and smiley faces and then others who are having home made beef wellington. Neither are a judgement on you or what you are having. Social media seems to have made people OBSESSED about what others are thinking of them. Just look at any school gate thread for examples.

There is definitely a hive mind, it's really important to know what the correct views are otherwjse you just get your arse handed to you. Maybe forums should publish a list of correct views in the same way they do posting guidelines

I think MN can come across as very judgmental because certain threads attract certain people who are very opinionated on that subject.

For example, threads about alcohol attract teetotalers, threads about weight attracted people with eating issues, threads about transgender issues attract rad fems, so on and so forth.

These thread get completely taken over by these very opinionated minorities that the less opinioned majority tend to just steer clear (unless they are in the mood for an argument).

The thing is, if you look at these threads it's always the same handful of people who monopolize them, and they are by no means the majority.

YANBU

It reminds me of the Jon Ronson - So you’ve been publically shamed book.

There are threads where posters are falling over themselves to bash the OP.

Also some where people love to defend the indefensible because it makes them feel interesting. (Racism is freedom of speech etc)

The competitive l’m a size 12 and morbidly obese threads feel a bit like self flagellation.

“You sound very entitled” - ie: stop wanting things you selfish hussey!

O come on OP, the internet is just the modern form of the gossipy garden fence. And it's anonymous! All those people who, in other days could have frowned in church and written anonymous letters are now unfettered along with the perfectly ordinary folk who simply want a quiet life.

Ask for opinions and you get opinions. That's the way it works and always has.