To be annoyed by anti-Alabama posts?

[Bere111]

For context, I’m not prolife or pro choice...i wouldn’t have an abortion myself but I know that largely because I’ve never been in those desperate circumstances, so equally would never judge someone who had.
But all the anti-Alabama posts I’ve seen this week by women in the UK I find pretty ill informed.
For example, most not knowing it is still banned in Northern Ireland- part of the UK.
Also, people saying it’s ‘healthcare’ - I don’t believe this is true. I think it should be a crisis service, and making it sound routine trivialises it for me.
People saying it’s a women choice...again I don’t really think this is right. It’s a women choice to get pregnant or not get pregnant of course, but unless that girl or women fell pregnant through no choice of their own (in which can of course she should have access to abortion) I’m not sure once she’s actually pregnant she should then just be free to opt in or opt out.
I fell pregnant by accident with ds1, I was very newly married, had a well paid job and owned a house but was younger then I’d planned to be (27)- yet I had 3 people ask ‘god, what are you going to do???’ Which I found bizarre.
Most people’s opinion of abortion (including mine!) is formed on the fact that for those that are victims of rape or incest, or the health of the mother or baby is in question, or for example the mother is under 18 or even under 21, the time they need to have a safe solution to deal with an unplanned pregnancy.
However, I know that only about 3% of abortion happen for the reason above. The rest the nhs classify as lifestyle factors.
I’m sure many women may be masking issues by telling the motivating reason for the termination is just a lifestyle factor, but even so I still think many, many abortion take place because of poor planning and poor timing.
I’ve had 2 close friends have terminations in our late 20s, both of which went on to have children with the same partner a few years later. Although I supported their choice, I didn’t really understand it. They were both preoccupied with the idea that the timing wasn’t right- even though they wanted children and wanted children with the current partners.
I think we put far to much pressure of ourselves that we have to do things in the right order- so then when a pregnancy comes along that wasn’t on the timeline, we freak out- even if we are perfectly capable of parenting at that time.
I also think something most be going wrong with how we are approaching contraception, especially as the fastest growing segment of women needing abortion are 30+ and have ahead previous abortions. Can women not access contraception easily or could giving more education around ovulation cycles help this (this is pretty common place in countries like Germany from secondary school age, and women generally avoid sex when they’re ovulating- even when using another form of contraception)
I guess all in all I think it’s a really complex matter- and I don’t think we have it totally right in this country, and I find it a trivialisation to see my friends sharing handmaid tale’s pictures with ‘my body my choice’ tag lines...surely when a matter really is life or death, we shouldn’t simplify it as a women’s prerogative?
Or AIBU?

@klendraa as far as I'm concerned, being vegan is to consider an animal just as worthy of compassionate treatment, ie. Not forcibly removing young calves or grinding up newly hatched male chicks, because it's fucking horrific. I don't see how you can't see the connection there, even though you say you're vegan? A pp used the example of "pro-life" hunters shooting deer and bears for entertainment. Surely you must see the irony there? I realise I'm in the minority but as a vegan I find it laughable that you can call yourself pro-life and be a complete carnist at the same time.

You're totally ignorant of the real world. Actually let me rephrase that - you're just totally ignorant.

Not read past the op and I'm sure it's been said before but you are pretty judgemental if you are genuinely pro choice

When I had my miscarriage no one said ‘sorry you lost an embryo’, most people acknowledged that id lost a baby, and rightly so.

Yes, that was right, because only an absolute cunt would tell a woman who had miscarried a wanted pregnancy that it was ok because it wasn’t a baby.

Please don’t confuse the things people say to be kind to someone who has had an awful experience with scientific facts. It’s disingenuous, unscientific and emotionally manipulative.

Apologies that should've been in England and Wales above, not UK. NI only has a tiny handful but Scotland of course performs terminations too, being a civilised country. So the number performed in the UK each year is probably over 200,000. That's a lot of willing adoptive parents some of you seem confident in securing, in a country where over one fifth of adoptions fail.

Yep @sheettent - that is what I suspected, although didn't feel qualified to say it as I don't live in the US. But all I kept thinking when I was watching the news and saw all those fat, white, middle aged men voting to take away a women's right to abortion, is that they just want to put women back where they belong - barefoot, pregnant and tied to the kitchen sink. It is chilling.

Imagine watching an extreme right-wing political group pass legislation to control the bodies of fifty percent of the population... and calling objections to it "anti-Alabama"?

I don't think you are BU OP. You raise valid questions;. I have often wondered why the obortion rate in this country continues to rise despite all people having access to free contraception and advice. I have several close friends who have had abortions (expensive procedures) when by their own admission, they were being a bit crap about their own contraception / or as OP said, being quite fussy about 'timing', despite being in a stable relationship. I have also actually heard people say, as well, if I get pregnant I can just get rid of it. People take the availability of abortion for granted and that's an issue. When you value something - don't take it for granted.

Oliversmummy, okay, if one of your ancestors had moved one inch after copulation, the sperm that led to you would have been killed by them, and you wouldn’t be here.

There are 190,000 abortions performed in the UK each year, of which around 180,000 are performed on women resident here. Banning abortion doesn't make it less common, but even if we pretend it does and the number is halved, do people really think there are 90,000 people each and every year willing and able to adopt newborns?

Not to mention that there is currently an NHS crisis, a housing crisis, an education crisis. Banning abortions not only ruins the woman's life but anyone who uses these services. Not to mention, having a child is the absolute worst thing you can do for the environment.

"I'm a misogynist" is three words, @Pinkyyy. Next time, save the bandwidth your nonsense takes up and just use those instead.

I absolutely hate the fact that women use the phrase 'my body, my choice'. When in fact that is only half true. They are choosing to value their own life above that of another human being

Yes, Pinkyyy, I will always value my own life, or even just my own happiness, over something that didn't even know it existed before it didn't any more. The two children I have wouldn't be here if I hadn't terminated my first pregnancy. How was their potential life any more or less important than any other? We're all here and remain here by chance.

if I remember rightly pinkyy belongs to the traveller community, this culture tends to have very old testament style views about women's rights

Change traveler to Muslim or Jewish and there would be calling for your post to be deleted.

Islam and Judaism are both Abrahamic religions! Why would such a post be deleted?

Maybe let your friends know what you really think about their decision to have an abortion; rather than venting anonymously?!

I have often wondered why the obortion rate in this country continues to rise despite all people having access to free contraception and advice.

Family planning clinics have been closing in significant numbers and it's now harder to get a GP appointment than it has been in some time. This access you speak of is getting patchier, thus more unwanted pregnancies doesn't shock me in the slightest.

“if I remember rightly pinkyy belongs to the traveller community, this culture tends to have very old testament style views about women's rights

Change traveler to Muslim or Jewish and there would be calling for your post to be deleted.”

Well, I reported it.

I've been @ multiple times and will find it difficult to reply to all so please bear with me.

@mollysshadow I think that pro-choicers always try to give the rape and invest argument, when in actual fact these make up lesson that 1% of abortions. But it would be very hypocritical of me to say that abortion was acceptable purely due to the circumstances of the conception, when I believe that abortion is murder.

@Handsoffmysweets I haven't claimed to be an expert. I've given my personal opinion as to what I believe to be true.

@dodgeballchamp I'm not saying that you're secretly traumatized. I'm saying that the fact you are perfectly fine with it absolutely mortifies me.

@Acis I think that in situations like this, the medical professionals will advise what is the best way to preserve life.

I think that the point made upthread is very important and very valid, where someone said that when someone suffers a miscarriage, people say that the woman has lost a baby. They do not say she's lost an embryo or a foetus or anything else. This clearly shows that they believe that woman carry babies, not cells.

Oliversmummy, okay, if one of your ancestors had moved one inch after copulation, the sperm that led to you would have been killed by them, and you wouldn’t be here

Completely different to getting pregnant then aborting.

The NHS can't say what percentage of women have an abortion for 'lifestyle reasons'. There are prescribed reasons that can be used and these include 'emotionally unable to continue with the pregnancy'. Now, that might mean 'I have 2 children and can't handle a 3rd', 'I just don't want to be a mother' or 'I'm not ready yet' but for some women it will mean 'I've been raped, but I don't want to have to say that', 'I'm in an abusive relationship and he won't let me use contraception' or even 'I'm emotionally unable to cope because I have been told this wanted baby will not survive.' or 'I will not be allowed to keep this baby as I am deemed a risk'.

I agree with a pp that for some of us it's an emotionally complex subject. However, the right of a woman to decide what happens to HER body is the fundamental - along with the right of children to be born wanted and loved. Read any of the case reports for children like baby p and tell me a woman should be forced to have a baby regardless of whether she is willing or capable.

Besides, we can't ban abortion we can only remove access to safe, legal abortion. My mum was a nurse when abortion was illegal. The stories she tells are horrifying.

Finally, its awful and shameful that abortion is illegal in NI. However, we can hope and campaign for it to move forward. The restriction of existing women's rights is terrifying.

No, @pinkyyy, us saying a woman has lost a baby rather than an embryo shows that we know there is a difference between a wanted pregnancy and an unwanted one.

Women who have had a miscarriage are not treated the same way as women whose baby has died.

I have had two miscarriages and would in no way expect to be given the same level of support and compassion as someone who had lost two children.

Imagine for example how much time you’d be allowed off work after a miscarriage compared to the death of your actual child. Plenty of women in the US have to miscarry at work and have no time off.

@TheSmallAssassin so what you're saying is that if you want it, it's a baby. If you don't, it's not?

@pinkyyy essentially, yes. It's how the woman feels that matters because the embryo or baby doesn't know either way, it won't know it was alive whether the pregnancy is terminated or miscarried.

Yes, if a woman can’t get pregnant I would talk to her if she wanted about the baby she had dreamed of and looked forward to and loved. If some other woman never wanted children or got pregnant I wouldn’t talk about her unborn babies, because they are not babies to her.

It is a potential baby a woman has lost.

It is saying that I am sorry you never got to have a baby- you lost the potential.