To wish Nigel Farage would fuck off to the far side of fuck

[Stripyseagulls]

He’s not a man of the people- he’s one of the elite. He’s a wealthy ex broker who wants to privatise the NHS. He has earnt a massive salary as an MEP but barely turned up. He’s a con artist who is actually pretty racist and unsavoury.

Am tired of seeing him on TV - he cares nothing for the poor of this country. I wish he would go away never to be seen again.

Aibu?

Does it really matter if there is proof or not that older people tended to vote for Brexit? It's still ageism.

Crap on your ballot paper if you want to make a protest

Dear God please don't let me be behind these people at the ballot box......

It’s not really ageism if it’s factually correct that older voters voted a particular way.

Vote Brexit if you believe in democracy. Even left-wingers (like me) should support the party that delivers the referendum result.

The "age" thing is a bit of a red herring. My mother voted Remain (and I respect her vote, unlike other Remainers who get simply hysterical and swear and tantrum when other people dare to vote differently from them). Its an irrelevant argument, and shows how Remainers are clutching at straws to support their ridiculous demands for another vote (best of 3? maybe 5? thats what children do when they lose). Bad losers, undemocratic and use personal abuse against Farage when they have run out of political arguments (which they haven't got, and are simply reduced to talking about running out of medicine (to hide their real self-interested agenda)).

It’s not really ageism if it’s factually correct that older voters voted a particular way.

But that is unproven.

P.S. I'm thrilled to see that the Brexit Party may, hopefully, do well in the elections .

The Remainer Tories deserve a really good kicking, and so do the Labour Party, for their lies and Machiavellian machinations. Hoisted by their own petard. The truth will out.

I did say if.

I'll be voting Brexit Party. Farage has stuck to his original insights on EC political corruption.

While getting a big fat salary, plus expenses, for being a member of the institution he purports to despise.

If people are advocating hatred towards older people because of how they voted that is ageism. Substitute Women for Old people and see how it looks.

Another “if”. It’s all circumstantial.

How is it unproven? The votes and statistics are published!! There was a direct correlation between proportion of leave voters and age! That's not ageism, that's facts. And statistics. Doesn't mean all people over a certain age voted leave (from memory, it was about 62% in the oldest category?) and it doesnt mean all young people voted remain (was maybe 67% or something like that). There's no need to fret about ageism, its just a trend. You're free to buck the trend!

Anyone who thinks Farage is honest should watch this too- a lot of dodgy money funding dodgy facebook campaigns around Brexit-www.ted.com/talks/carole_cadwalladr_facebook_s_role_in_brexit_and_the_threat_to_democracy?utm_campaign=tedspread&utm_medium=referral&utm_source=tedcomshare

This bbc article references 4 polls (including the YouGov one) from immediately following the referendum, which all show the same split by age (i.e. Younger voters strongly backing Remain very strongly, older voters backing Leave). At a quick google I can only find the YouGov poll and a statistica one. Current polling (as to how voters would vote now) also shows the split.

www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-45098550

Two more recent academic reviews had the same findings.

www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0176268018301320

academic.oup.com/economicpolicy/article/32/92/601/4459491

Of course, as age isn't recorded on the ballot paper, you cannot reach a standard of absolute proof. However, the unanimity amongst polls and studies is very strong evidence.

There were still millions of older voters that voted Remain though, correlation isn't unanimity (and certainly not in this case).

So ClaraMatilda what of the millions of British citizens living abroad who were denied a vote? Shouldn't we have been allowed to have our say? Which would certainly have led to a remain result.

Look:

lordashcroftpolls.com/2019/03/a-reminder-of-how-britain-voted-in-the-eu-referendum-and-why/

The demographics

The older the voters, the more likely they were to have voted to leave the EU. Nearly three quarters (73%) of 18 to 24 year-olds voted to remain, falling to under two thirds (62%) among 25-34s. A majority of those aged over 45 voted to leave, rising to 60% of those aged 65 or over. Most people with children aged ten or under voted to remain; most of those with children aged 11 or older voted to leave.

A majority of those working full-time or part-time voted to remain in the EU; most of those not working voted to leave. More than half of those retired on a private pension voted to leave, as did two thirds of those retired on a state pension.

Among private renters and people with mortgages, a small majority (55% and 54%) voted to remain; those who owned their homes outright voted to leave by 55% to 45%. Around two thirds of council and housing association tenants voted to leave.

A majority (57%) of those with a university degree voted to remain, as did 64% of those with a higher degree and more than four in five (81%) of those still in full time education. Among those whose formal education ended at secondary school or earlier, a large majority voted to leave.

White voters voted to leave the EU by 53% to 47%. Two thirds (67%) of those describing themselves as Asian voted to remain, as did three quarters (73%) of black voters. Nearly six in ten (58%) of those describing themselves as Christian voted to leave; seven in ten Muslims voted to remain.

The AB social group (broadly speaking, professionals and managers) were the only social group among whom a majority voted to remain (57%). C1s divided fairly evenly; nearly two thirds of C2DEs (64%) voted to leave the EU.

All, depressingly, clear.

How is it unproven? The votes and statistics are published!! There was a direct correlation between proportion of leave voters and age

I think you have confused statistical probability and proof there.

Overseas Brits should definitely have had the vote. Wasn't the commitment to extend voting rights for Brits abroad, to a lifetime right, part of the same manifesto as the Referendum?

I think Cameron was so confident that Remain would win that he excluded certain overseas voters just to placate the Brexiteers. He fucked that up.

@calpop

"Lord Ashcroft" claims - "On referendum day I surveyed 12,369 people"

Unless he interviewed 17+ million (and they all told the truth) he is making a massive extrapolation based on a tiny sample size.

Calpop, the fact of the matter is when you vote, there is no box you tick at the same time to identify you demographics.

That survey you quoted, how big was the sample? How robust was it?

I voted against independence in 2014 and never dreamed I would advocate leaving the UK. Seeing what is happening now to the country that I love is making me feel much braver about the prospect of going alone

Yes, because the way to deal with the problem of nationalism is definitely to vote for more nationalism.

Is it possible that the unanimous findings of polls and studies that the Leave vote correlated with older age is wrong? Yes.

Is it likely? No, not at all.

And yet I prefer Farage to Corbyn because he's not a Communist.

Just as a reminder to all those quoting Yougov polls as "facts" and "proof" I think I can understand your confusion as their poll on the day of the vote gave the outcome as 52% remain.

I am not saying they are always wrong (or right) but you cannot say they are proof about how groups of people voted. They couldn't even call the binary result correctly with only two possible outcomes.

polls are normally with a 1-3% margin of error so it is unlikely that the figure of 60% of pensioners voting leave is so far out that a majority actually voted remain
however in all of these groups it is a very sizeable minortiy that voted the other way
take pensioners again 60% voted leave but 40 % voted remain 40% is not a tiny minority it is just under half
conversely 57% of those with degrees voted remain which means 43% of those with degrees voted leave ie again just under half
so 52% remain in an exit poll is only a tiny tiny fraction outside of statistically variation 3% (49-55%) for a result that was actually 4% out at 48% remain
so statistically for pensioners the numbers voting leave depending on day time etc could be 57-63% and remainers 37-43%
polls are not facts only the result is a fact polls are reasonably reliable predicators normally but fairly useless when looking at differences of only 1-2%; in hindsight nobody should have been taking any comfort from being ahead 1-2% in all previous polls as they should have known with the variations for sample size it could be out 1-2% which would swing it the other way all a poll saying 49/51 tells you is that it is very very close and could go either way so don't rest on your laurels you are not over the winning line and the slightest tiniest thing at the last minute could tip it the other way
but those campaigning for remain thought being always ahead would mean they would win and didn't really realise how dangerous it was They seem to have never thought that such a tight margin might not be enough and were I think over confident of a result which never in hindsight looked as clear cut as people thought and tiny factors like the labour leader not campaigning, someone getting a good speech in at the last minute all mattered , Jean Claude Juncker probably did the leave side a huge favour with his dismissive rudeness of those on leave side

Seriously Teacup, many of the polls have been wide off the mark.